Balance Test Mod.

Re: Balance Test Mod.

Postby Ze_PilOt » 02 Mar 2013, 16:39

Because it's a bug and the fix was submitted. Bugs don't need to pass any balance survey, we want bugs fixed.

For the transport, I wasn't even aware of that, so the chances it get fixed were thin.
But if you know how fix it, it will be done for this patch too.

Imagine that someone find the Percy OP. Do you want as a fix that we make it forget half the command you send ? How do you will call that such behavior ?
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Re: Balance Test Mod.

Postby Firestarter » 02 Mar 2013, 16:51

On a testing note, I'll have to leave the ASF testing to someone with a bit more time but firebeetles seem to be fun now. I did notice though that an enemy ACU (AI) seemed to want to shoot a mantis instead of the firebeetles though...now that I can hoard the little beggers it might be best to make sure the targetting priorities are pretty high for most direct fire units towards firebeetles. And maybe top of the list for commanders?

PS don't know if sorian AI somehow overides basic unit AI however.


PPS I see the full balance mod changes mentions doing something to T1 arty but I'm not familiar with that aspect of the code. What was the tweak?
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Re: Balance Test Mod.

Postby Ze_PilOt » 02 Mar 2013, 17:18

Its the aeon bomber, was a typo sorry.
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Re: Balance Test Mod.

Postby ColonelSheppard » 02 Mar 2013, 17:38

i played two games with aeon (before the last change) and while i agree that this is an anoying bug that should be fixed (UEF here btw) i doubt that a slight reduction of the turret speed will make balanced again

i cant post them now as i'm on my laptop but atm they can basicly beat you 3v1 in mass, and because of this your enemy can just build 0,8:1 and take the rest for air, also commer kiting just became ridicolous

i can really see how you want to tweak them, i dont think you will come around a dmg nerf (ok i did not play them since the lates change so i dont want to guess too much but it's really ridicolous atm)
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Re: Balance Test Mod.

Postby Ze_PilOt » 02 Mar 2013, 17:59

The only difference now is that they start kiting immediately.

The turret speed nerf already make them unable to shot the first second they start kiting. If it's not enough, a acceleration and/or speed nerf should compensate as the other units will catch them as fast as before.

Also I must state that the bombers price and the t1 unit speed buff were indirect nerf to the auroras. They were less effective than 3599.

Also they are supposed to be better if you kite correctly. What compensate is the player forgetting to start kiting, artys and bombers. So a pure sandbox game won't prove anything.
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Re: Balance Test Mod.

Postby ColonelSheppard » 02 Mar 2013, 18:06

the problem is that you can now fully compensate direction changes of other units (especially commander)
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Re: Balance Test Mod.

Postby Ze_PilOt » 02 Mar 2013, 18:09

And that's good, its supposed to be a micro friendly unit. I'm waiting for more games replays using the turret speed nerf in order to evaluate how much they need to be slowed down.
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Re: Balance Test Mod.

Postby GallantDragon » 03 Mar 2013, 00:18

I've seen people complaining about stuff, but no replays. Come on, guys! Post them replays!
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Re: Balance Test Mod.

Postby IceDreamer » 03 Mar 2013, 00:31

The Aurora changes are an extremely poor bit of logic, Pil0t, I'm disappointed. I understand your intentions, but you have not fixed a bug, what you have done is introduced a workaround to the bug, and one which is poor in conception and even poorer in implementation. These units have been balanced from the ground up around the fact that they must turn their entire body to fire. Changing this fact is far too big a change for one go. Also, this bug is not even a bug at all, but an intended feature...

Their lack of responsiveness is nothing to do with the turret, and is a design feature, not a bug. To compensate for these units being able to traverse water thanks to hover, and as a feature/lore design, ALL hover units have lower acceleration than their wheeled or tracked counterparts. It makes sense too, if you consider the physical behaviour of an IRL Hovercraft. You can't just say 'I don't like this design feature, so I'm going to change it'. No, there has to be proper thought put into such a massive change.

1: Lock the Turrets again. This IS NOT a good solution to the problem.
2: Examine the facts - Long has Aeon been micro-heavy in return for power. The behaviour of hovering units has long been a part of that.
3: If you insist on changing it, do the following:

- Allow the turret to move by roughly 5 degrees to each side. This allows a little leeway while keeping the turn rate of the unit the driving force behind its behaviour.
- Increase the unit's TurnFacingRate, TurnRate and MaxAcceleration, decrease the DragCoefficient and MaxSpeed. Might I suggest +30, +30, +0.2, -0.05, and -0.1 respectively as a starting point.



As an aside, one change to SAMs I'd like to see which can only have a positive effect, and will naturally cut down on overkill:

+100% Projectile Velocity
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Re: Balance Test Mod.

Postby Ze_PilOt » 03 Mar 2013, 01:10

You have it wrong.
Take 10 auroras. Do an enemy monkeylord in hold fire. Put them in fire range.
Ask them to pull back. One click.
Most of the time, at least 4 units won't move at all.
Now, make that order twice in a row, not a single one will obey.

Don't tell me its intended and used to balance the unit, its silly to think that.
Sure that the fix is a workaround, but unless we access the engine code, its the only way to fix that behavior.

I will try your values, and that change will stay unless we can't avoid making it OP.
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