Monkey lord cost reduction.

[Demo]

One thing I never understood about ML is what is it's actual purpose. Thematically, stealth and speed are it's advantages, but in practice (enemy air presence scouting every single pixel on the map) for how much does it actually count?

My vision of ML:

- marginally cheaper and faster to produce than other land-based experimentals (more like a general flavour of cybran units than actual gameplay significance - generally speaking, I wouldn't complain if it's cost was scaled up to that comparable of either ythotha, fatboy or GC - I point this out, because this "cost advantage" is most common excuse for ML's sub-par status, regardless of whether this "cost advantage" alone makes ML competitive to other experimentals)
- superior range and movement speed vs direct-fire land experimentals and t3 units (40 range on laser? 50 radar range? GC laser range nerf down to 30? GC omni range nerf down to 30?)
- stealth, jammer (can anything be done to make these abilities more relevant in practice, outside of hiding in the water and hoping to sneak by enemy sonar? cybran buff in general? over-prevalance of high-range omni sensors, coupled up with meta favouring small-medium maps give very little respite for sneaky cybrans pretending to appear invisible to dozens of t3 air scouts all over the map - perhaps reducing omni range or removing omni from t3 air scouts as well as reducing omni range from t3 radars is in order)
- torpedoes and anti-air weapons that are actually powerful deterrents vs enemy submarines and gunships/bombers (else what's the point of operational independence and surprise, suggested by stealth? after all competitive hit points pool and/or shield was sacrificed just to get a marginally lower chance of detection, which counts for nothing the moment cover is blown; giant hit box doesn't help escaping TMLs and artillery either)
- melts down when faced with enemy fire at 30-35 range

tl'dr at least half of ML's problems seem to be a direct result of cybran's sub-par competitive status in the current meta. When you remove mobile shields, reduce hit points across the board of all units and give stealth/jammer in return across a whole faction, but stealth/jammer offer no competitive benefits compared to superior firepower, shields or other fail-proof strategies, then no wonder why this thread even exists. Fixing ML is synonymous to fixing Cybrans at large, unless you remove stealth/jammer from ML and balance as frontline experimental instead.

[Voodoo]

I'm surprised to see you disagree Voodoo =(. I feel like you exemplified my point when you easily dealt with two MLs against deathly using percies and a fatty (despite a weaker economy to begin with) on canis 4x4 just the other day.

This happend after minute 20 if i'm right. To say this was the late game.
I'm thinking on teams games, were it would be possible to rush the ML in around 15 min if all players are building it.

[BRNKoINSANITY]

I think the best option here would be a slight range increase. Probably equal to bricks/percies as the monkey is faster and can run away. As things stand, to me a monkey is not really worth building when I can wait a few minutes and build a Megalith instead of low range late game cannon fodder.

[FunkOff]

I agree the ML needs a buff, but instead of cost, why not just buff the things that make the monkey unique? IE, a slight speed increase, a slight acceleration/turn speed increase, and/or significant buffs the the AA missile and torpedo weapons.

[ColonelSheppard]

i dont think turn speed would make it out, but speed buff is a nice idea

[Icy]

Laser range increase sounds interesting.

[_PG_]

im agaist cost reduciton, but a slight speed buff and range im in for...

[JeeVeS]

Very well. I propose changing the thread to ML buff and altering the following:

Microwave range from 30 -> 37
Speed from 2.5 -> 3
Electron bolters from 150 -> 250
Nanite missiles from 40 -> 200
Meson torpedos from 50 -> 200

As it stands, the electron bolters are little more than an early warning to the opponent that you're coming, and the missiles and torpedos are both useless. I feel 200 is the minimum to be able to say this unit truly has any sort of self-sufficiency.

[Seleucus24]

I feel buffing its speed would make it too powerful. Increasing secondary armaments power and laser range seem fine. Though 200 dmg torpedoes seem little high. 100 would be better ( I mean it should not be a sub killing machine )

[Stratocaster]

Don't wanna go back to 3599.

I'd say reduce the range of the bolters (less warning, to make better use of stealth), and give it a slight speed boost. In the past, I perceived it as an exp that you simply rushed and didn't really see much use of after that, as it didn't have the HP to go head on and trade shots with defenses and other exp. It would be cool if it could outmanuever most of its counters, if you have sufficient intel. Like a ninja or assassin...

GC/Ytho have 2.5 speed and 40 turn rate. ML has 2.5 speed and 20 turn rate. I wouldn't mind it getting a "sped up" re-make. 2.7 speed to make it possible to barely escape a GC/Ytho (and chase down a Fatboy easier), but not too fast (zomg camel spider flashbacks). Bolter range shortened to maybe 45, to match torp range (and Ytho range); faster reload on the bolters to handle spam that might be too fast for its slow turning laser to handle. Stronger torps and AA damage (WTF, were those tuned in vanilla something?), and maybe slightly faster AA to make up for it not being AoE. Its laser range being 30 is cool--it at least gives a dying ACU a chance to go out with an OC, along with its bang.

Think small changes guys. Nothing drastic! Don't wanna end up with a different game!