UEF TMD buff.

Re: UEF TMD buff.

Postby Poch » 16 Feb 2013, 04:54

Well, IIRC, an UEF tmd needs 2 shots to take a missile down with 1 tmd and 1 missile, the missile is always near its objective when it explodes. While sera and cybran just one shoot it at full range. So again, if i remember correctly, the effectiveness difference between UEF and sera/cybran is huge. Aeon is good and bad at the same time, but i agree range should really be higher.

The main problem with the 2 is you cant really defend against a missile spam. UEF can make rows of TMDs tough, which will help to get the 2 shots.
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Re: UEF TMD buff.

Postby Stratocaster » 16 Feb 2013, 05:02

Think the faction diversity is intended. Sera TMD tracks, but has a very slow muzzle velocity. UEF has a slight faster muzzle. Cybran has almost instant, but it can "miss" since the beam can sometimes lead the missile too much if the missile is at an awkward altitude and traveling at a tangent to its radius (I believe).

The "beacon flare" that the Aeon TMD shoots out does attract various missile projectiles, such as mercy "projectiles" AND even nuclear missiles. The Aeon TMD doesn't target them though. It needs a missile to fire at and any mercies or nukes that it attracts are incidental. I'd say there's a 1/100 chance for it to absorb a nuke, and 99/100 chance the nuke just swerves a little and it explodes anyways. There's probably a slight better chance that the missiles from a cruiser or whatever (from someone other than the one who launches the nuke) hit the nuke missile and destroy it, without a nuclear explosion.
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Re: UEF TMD buff.

Postby Gyle » 16 Feb 2013, 12:07

Arkansas wrote:Whats worse about UEF TMD than Sera/Cyb?

Unit db seems to show they have the exact same stats. Does the UEF not have enough turtling advantages already.


This has long been an issue for me and if I get the chance ill try and get a video up today illustrating the issue. Wehther or not its a bug I dont know but I have seen countless replays of buzzkills taking 3-4 attempts to shoot down 1 tac missile. Not sure whether its an issue with the mussle velocity and the missiles angel or not. Its plainly visible in the database that the buzzkill and the zapper have the same stats. But eitherway support given for fIxing/buffing it.
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Re: UEF TMD buff.

Postby noms » 16 Feb 2013, 15:48

Somebody should create a replay testing various combinations of TML vs TMD.
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Re: UEF TMD buff.

Postby Sunny » 19 Feb 2013, 10:28

Well, that UEF TMDs are not reliable especially vs Cybran TML (rockets split into 3) is a common knowledge since vanilla.

As I recall 5 years old discussions, buffing UEF tmds was one of things widely considered required, but impossible, as THQ did patches.

To check this out just build a like 3 Cybran TMLs and count the amount of UEF TMDs needed to stop them.
Cybran TMLs even sometimes kill UEF TMDs being ordered to attack UEF TMD itself.

UEF TMD is a complete crap, but looks like having character. It's also fun to see it shooting a missile for a while with it's machine gun. I would suggest to buff not it's effectiveness itself, but it's range for like 25% (mb even for 50% as I suspect it's less and less effective the longer the range is, which is cool too) to encourage more effective use of overlapping and for faction diversity.
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Re: UEF TMD buff.

Postby Epson » 20 Feb 2013, 05:41

Here is a replay. Lots of mistakes but you get the gist of what im showing you. Acclerate to about +10.

Conclusions:

Aeon is easily most effective though it only protects in it's actual area. Meaning you need to have TMD everywhere. Other factions can create impassable TMD wall Aeon can't. This means ACU snipe is easier if not always in TMD area but almost impossible if ACU is. Only TMD to be able to deal with TM at very short range.

Cybran is only one capable of killing X vs X [When i put it in the proper and fair formation].

Seraphim nothing particularly excting.

UEF same as above.

All were useless against Cybran missiles except for Aeon [mass launch at the end was to emphasise this]
Mercy's are not affected by Aeon TMD. I attacked the ground a couple of times as well.

I believe there is so much gripe about UEF even though it seems identical to Seraphim for a couple of reasons:
UEF have MUCH weaker shields than Seraphim.
UEF ACUs tend to be on the front lines more (T3 PD creep, firebase etc)
UEF tends to be the faction that newbies use [no offense guys] so they don't yet know how important the spacing of TMD is etc [I didn't].

All of this makes the ACU more susceptible to snipe.
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Re: UEF TMD buff.

Postby Sunny » 20 Feb 2013, 06:54

Epson wrote:Here is a replay.


Amazing job indeed. Replay shows, that Sera TMD is very unreliable too.
Very good display of ALL tmds, except Aeon need buff.

3+ TMLs are often constructed for comm snipe, and they should not be used as press-to-kill thing (especially cybran ones).

Aeon TMD lure Mercies but you need to launch rocket as they aren't triggered by Mercies.

I often use MMLs to make TMDs occupied. Even 1 Cybran TML gets through multiple TMDs this way.
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Re: UEF TMD buff.

Postby ColonelSheppard » 20 Feb 2013, 07:54

buffing TMD buffs turtle and probably PD creep
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Re: UEF TMD buff.

Postby Epson » 20 Feb 2013, 16:34

In my opinion it depends on the other changes. If shield layering is still nerfed and the UEF tact missile receives an upgrade then yes they do need to be upgraded.

If shields are strengthened and UEF doesn't receive a buff then I don't see too much of a problem.
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Re: UEF TMD buff.

Postby Sunny » 20 Feb 2013, 19:44

I think 3 TMDs should absolutely always stop 3-6 TMLs of any faction w/o any complimenary defenses. This is ffing hard counter after all, TMDs are useless in anything else.

You will need 3 TMD here and there and there and there and....

Or I suggest to give T3 strat bombers like 15k hp, make cybran nuke divide into three, make artillery range the same as of PD (we had it lol), make restorers > ASFS, return target tracking to MMLs and "fix" any other aspect of game exactly the same way, so that hard counter would be useless, or make it for 1 faction, for diversity.

Now it's like "oh, he built TMD! now I stop launching missiles". LOL. If you have even rough idea of current balance, you continue without any problem. You could do it with arguable effectivenes even if 3 TMDs would stop 6 TMLs, building 7 th, targeting TMDs and picking target of your choice next shot.

This has nothing to do with turtling etc, as turtling is impossible in FA, as in FA you get mass from mexes outside the base mostly.
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