Buff some T2 units speed and HPs.

Re: Buff some T2 units speed and HPs.

Postby pip » 16 Feb 2013, 16:49

1) The 100 HP buff to Hoplite only is because they should not have 200 HP less than Mongoose, especially because Mongoose can also benefit from mobile shields, and Mongoose don't die to 2 sera bombers. 550 HP for Hoplites is a good number, not too high, not too low. Mongoose don't need more : they already have much more.

2) Speeds: 3603 introduced these heavy speed nerfs for some unknown reasons. But 3603 is not a bible, remember navy buildtimes. Speeds in 3599 made much more sense. My proposal are still below 3599 value. Speeds were all much higher than in 3603 (pillars and rhinos = 3.3, Obsidian = 3). All I'm suggesting is to almost go back to 3599 speeds.

Just because a unit says "heavy tank", doesn't mean it's a slow unit. Rhinos and pillars are said "heavy" because they are t2, but they are actually medium t2 assault units, Hoplite and Mongoose are light units; Riptides and Wagners are heavy assault units and yet they are much faster.
2.7 speed is really slow when you compare to t1 (3.5 speed average) and t3 (Siege bots have speed 4; harbingers, sniper bots are 3, Othuums are 2.5; onlu Bricks and Percivals are significantly slower than Rhinos and pillars, but have much more range and hp). I can't argue with people who think it's normal to have medium and cheap unit that much slower than anything in the game when the supposedly heavier t2 units are much, much faster. For me, it's ridiculous. I know the purpose of high speed hover units is because ships are very fast, but I fail to see why t2 normal tanks, that are weaker, should be slow as snails.

The rhino is probably the worse tank because of its slow speed.
Why should Rhino have 1.0 less speed than mantis? How can you use them efficiently like that with their shitty hp and range? I'm giving a tip to Cybran players : forget about rhinos, build wagners, they are much better in all aspects.

If you prefer that I suggest only it for Rhino, which is the most completely useless t2 unit currently, I'm ok with this, but you should compare t2 speeds with other tiers. It's a matter of general equilibrium between the tiers.

Last argument : the higher speed is also meant to help escape ACU overcharge, the bane of T2 units.
pip
Supreme Commander
 
Posts: 1826
Joined: 04 Oct 2011, 15:33
Has liked: 191 times
Been liked: 86 times
FAF User Name: pip

Re: Buff some T2 units speed and HPs.

Postby Zock » 16 Feb 2013, 17:12

T2 tanks need a speed rework indeed, and light tanks should be faster then heavy tanks. I don't think heavy tanks need a speed increase badly. It will propably be good, but this should be done after reworking light/heavy tanks.

This topic needs to be touched carefull, though.

A small hoplite HP buff seems ok to me.
gg no re

ohh! what a pretty shining link! https://www.youtube.com/c/Zockyzock
User avatar
Zock
Supreme Commander
 
Posts: 1395
Joined: 31 Aug 2011, 22:44
Has liked: 172 times
Been liked: 397 times
FAF User Name: Zock

Re: Buff some T2 units speed and HPs.

Postby HyperNova » 16 Feb 2013, 19:48

Hmmm, Clever. I agree to the Rhino speed buff. It could help you correct some firing issues faster. IE move around a small hill, or up it to shot down. Its dual particle beams hitting the floor really kills this unit obviously. (The Rhino has always been my favorite T2 tank since supcom 1)
CEASE AND DESIST
HyperNova
Banned
 
Posts: 45
Joined: 21 Aug 2012, 01:01
Has liked: 0 time
Been liked: 0 time
FAF User Name: HyperNova

Re: Buff some T2 units speed and HPs.

Postby Wakke » 16 Feb 2013, 19:59

@pip. T2 being slower than T1 makes them interesting and gives T1 a right to exist next to T2. If T2 tanks are found to be lacking (i said 'if'), they should be buffed in other areas than speed. IMO.
Wakke
Avatar-of-War
 
Posts: 295
Joined: 02 Sep 2012, 10:58
Has liked: 13 times
Been liked: 13 times

Re: Buff some T2 units speed and HPs.

Postby JeeVeS » 16 Feb 2013, 21:45

Bringing rhino to 3.2 speed isn't really going to change its uselessness in comparison to wagners (except in energy-stalled economies). How about bringing its mass cost down to 170 for a more attractive mass/hp ratio?
JeeVeS
Avatar-of-War
 
Posts: 139
Joined: 26 Nov 2012, 06:08
Has liked: 4 times
Been liked: 15 times
FAF User Name: IridiumBLOWS

Re: Buff some T2 units speed and HPs.

Postby Krapougnak » 17 Feb 2013, 10:40

(repost) Why don't we just switch costs and hp between Rhino/wagner and Pillar/Riptide ?
Amphibious tanks should be less powerful and costly that their land counterparts as they are already amphibious. Rhino is never built but you see Wagners even on maps without water.
User avatar
Krapougnak
Contributor
 
Posts: 339
Joined: 12 Jul 2012, 11:03
Has liked: 178 times
Been liked: 24 times
FAF User Name: Krapougnak

Re: Buff some T2 units speed and HPs.

Postby Blackheart » 22 Feb 2013, 15:41

In my opinion every buff for the cybran land force is just ridiculous. If you want to make the game faster and make t2 a little bit better do it for all factions the same, like 0,3 speed more for every faction. But 0,5 for cybran and also +100 hp for hoplites are shifting the balance in the wrong direction. Right now on t2 you only can do t1 bombers against hoplites+stealth. Cybran T2 is one of the strongest t2 out there so to buff it even further is a plain mistake. Also looking at the ladder stats the only faction that objectively needs a buff is UEF. I strongly suggest everyone to rethink about his votes for the cybran buffs in this patch, because cybran is very strong already since the last patch! I seldom write in the threads here, but this time it is just necessary :(
User avatar
Blackheart
Priest
 
Posts: 366
Joined: 04 Jul 2012, 13:26
Has liked: 292 times
Been liked: 292 times
FAF User Name: various

Re: Buff some T2 units speed and HPs.

Postby Rediska » 22 Feb 2013, 16:12

Hoplites HP buff looks good.
But I dont agree with speed buffs. Heavy tank must be slower than light one, that is true.
I adore FA.
But I have all the right to hate it because I cant really play any other RTS anymore because of it. They looks like small boring sandboxes without sense. Thank you genious Chris Taylor!
User avatar
Rediska
Crusader
 
Posts: 22
Joined: 16 Jan 2013, 14:14
Has liked: 2 times
Been liked: 0 time
FAF User Name: RedIS_ska

Re: Buff some T2 units speed and HPs.

Postby pip » 22 Feb 2013, 16:34

Rediska wrote:Hoplites HP buff looks good.
But I dont agree with speed buffs. Heavy tank must be slower than light one, that is true.



Can you explain to me where I make heavy tanks faster than light tanks? For me, 3 speed for a T1 UEF tank is still significantly slower than the t1 medium tank (3.5 speed). The goal is too make t2 tanks not arrive the last of your army by a very big margin if you do not baby sit your units to artificially slow down your t1 units because your t2 ones are so slow. It makes sense that t2 units are slower, but not that slow.

As for saying speed is not a Cybran trait justifying why the poor rhino should at least be fast, check the HP as a reference : it has 1150 HP only compared to the UEF pillar, a pillar wins 1v1 easily due to its 1500HP, faster speed would mak rhino not so shitty. Right now, you can remove it from the game, it has no value whatsoever.

Finally, can someone justify to me how the Hoplite wiht 450 HP is so much better than the Mongoose with 650 HP? I mean 200 hp difference is huge, i am just suggesting to reduce the gap bcause for me stealth + hoplites is much easier to counter than mongosse + shield even if Hoplites have 550 HP instead of 450. Even Jester, a t1 unit, has more HP than the Hoplite, seriously...
pip
Supreme Commander
 
Posts: 1826
Joined: 04 Oct 2011, 15:33
Has liked: 191 times
Been liked: 86 times
FAF User Name: pip

Re: Buff some T2 units speed and HPs.

Postby Blackheart » 22 Feb 2013, 16:46

Rocket bot has more range than every other bot and outranges the gatling bot. With +100 hp this unit would be too strong. If you played against ZLO once you know the pain of t2 cybran bots :)
User avatar
Blackheart
Priest
 
Posts: 366
Joined: 04 Jul 2012, 13:26
Has liked: 292 times
Been liked: 292 times
FAF User Name: various

PreviousNext

Return to Patch 3622

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest