Buff some T2 units speed and HPs.

Buff some T2 units speed and HPs.

Postby Ze_PilOt » 15 Feb 2013, 18:18

The balance tweaks I'm proposing is slightly buffing some t2 units to make this stage of the game a bit more dynamic and less t2 PD creep orientated.

1)t2 main units speed buff : T2 main attack units are simply too slow when compared to other t2 units, or even t1 and t3 units. The goal is to make these units better at raiding / getting map control and also easier to micro when facing an ACU able to overcharge them easily if they can't retreat in time.

Obsidian : +0.3 speed (2.6> 2.9)
Rhino : +0.5 speed (2.7>3.2)
Pillar : +0.3 speed (2.7>3)
Ilshavoh : +0.2 speed (2.6>2.8)

Variations in the numbers are meant to preserve / enhance faction diversity. (For reference, these are close to the speed values in 3599, still slightly lower).

2) +100 HP to Hoplites so that they are not so vulnerable to t1 bombers (especially Sera ones).
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Re: Buff some T2 units speed and HPs.

Postby ColonelSheppard » 15 Feb 2013, 18:43

I'm against this. T2 raiding troops are already effective enough. Heavy tanks should be slower than light tanks
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Re: Buff some T2 units speed and HPs.

Postby Arkansas » 15 Feb 2013, 18:52

The real problem as discussed in chat earlier is the discrepancy in damage output and health for cost of t2 amphibious tanks and t2 heavy tanks is huge.

The Rhino and Wagner is perhaps the best example of this (arbitary units)

Rhino
Health: 1
Speed 1
Cost 1
Dps 1 (Ok it doesn't miss unless the terrain raises an Inch).

Wagner
Health: 1.3
Speed 1.5 (And can drive underwater)
Cost 1.3
Dps 2 (also has a fire arc)

You can check that in the unit DB, the Rhino essentially looks useless, particularly as t1 units like the mantis will leave it behind without intense micro, somthing the wagner does not suffer from.

There is a similar story with the riptide, the speed and lack of overkill make it really good at the t2 stage of the game where the focus is generally swatting aside spam, something the pillar doesn't do so well.

Aeon obsidians suffer from massive overkill, they could use a small splash damage as their projectile impact anim suggests to help aeon against spam. The Blaze is often used by players against spam because the obsidian is so useless (generally) but doesn't do such a good job as auroras. I think most good players would recommend shields + auroras as a more mass effective counter.

The point is t2 units seem all over the place in terms of effectiveness and lack any real niche (save for the Ilashov as the Sera hovertank is overshadowed by fobos). I can't see how minor speed adjustments will save that.
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Re: Buff some T2 units speed and HPs.

Postby Wakke » 15 Feb 2013, 18:54

ColonelSheppard wrote:I'm against this. T2 raiding troops are already effective enough. Heavy tanks should be slower than light tanks


Seconded.
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Re: Buff some T2 units speed and HPs.

Postby Ze_PilOt » 15 Feb 2013, 18:56

I don't agree with your obsidian analysis.
It's not like you are sending your T2 alone without any shield or T1.

Obsidian can "tank", one-shot t1, and basically make your auroras left behind more viable. It's basically the same than a cheap T4 in the middle on T3 : They probably will do less DPS, but they will "tank" every shot while the T3 do the job.
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Re: Buff some T2 units speed and HPs.

Postby HyperNova » 15 Feb 2013, 20:52

"Ilshavoh : +0.2 speed (2.6>2.8)"

That won me over. I say yes. As for Aeon's heavy tanks, I just hate their build time. Their unit speed never bothered me.
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Re: Buff some T2 units speed and HPs.

Postby JeeVeS » 16 Feb 2013, 04:27

You bring up a good point that rhinos are near completely useless. To logically chose them over wagners you would have to be hurting for energy or in some scenario where their slightly increased hp/mass ratio is desirable over speed, better aiming, and higher, frontloaded dps. Wagners are better in virtually every way (yes they have -1 range), and beat rhinos mass for mass. This is ridiculous.

But, a speed bonus does not fix rhinos, and the other faction's units are all useful as is.
ColonelSheppard wrote:T2 raiding troops are already effective enough.


^
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Re: Buff some T2 units speed and HPs.

Postby Gyle » 16 Feb 2013, 12:21

ColonelSheppard wrote:I'm against this. T2 raiding troops are already effective enough. Heavy tanks should be slower than light tanks


I concure...
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Re: Buff some T2 units speed and HPs.

Postby ZLO_RD » 16 Feb 2013, 12:27

i agree with that change, but you buffed hoplites, but did not buff mongoose, that bit strange to me
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Re: Buff some T2 units speed and HPs.

Postby ColonelSheppard » 16 Feb 2013, 12:58

if we only talk about buffing rihno speed we can think about it
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