Buff the billy

Buff the billy

Postby Ze_PilOt » 15 Feb 2013, 18:11

I want to buff the "Billy" thats the tactical nuke upgrade for the UEF commander, an upgrade simple not used at all/no useable at all atm. This shell be done by either reducing the costs and shift it to mid/early late game or buffing it's effectiveness in late game. (it's currently defended by a single shields while you need 5T3 Pgens to only produce the energy for it not speaking of the mass..) More explanations when i'm asked to post them.
Nossa wrote:I've never played GPG or even heard of FA until FAF started blowing up.
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Re: Buff the billy

Postby ColonelSheppard » 16 Feb 2013, 00:47

Introduction:

The Billy is an upgrade for the TML upgrade of the UEF commander, it adds damage and a big AoE to the missle. However, the upgrade and the missle itself are ridicolous expensive while they are countered by one TMD or one shield.

Possible tweaks

1) Leaving the costs untouched, buffing effectiveness
The idea is too keep the Billy as an lategame upgrade, but as an viable one. This shell be done by:
- increasing range by 30%
- increasing dmg by 70% (from 12 to 20k)
- decrease inner ring range by 12% (cause of aeon tmd)
- increase outer ring by 8
- increase outer ring dmg by 500 (to 1000)
- increasing the missle health by 1 (so it has the same hp as the normal commander TML)
- make it imune to Loyalist TMD


2) Shifting the Billy to early late game
Making it a real "tactical nuke" like the bombs the UEF strat i throwing (yes in the desciption it say they are small nukes)
this would mean:
- reducing upgrade costs by 70%
- reducing inner ring nuke by 60%
- increasing damage by 3.000 to 15.0000
- making the build for missle time a 1:20 minute thing
- reducing energy building costs by 50%
- increase missle health by 1

3) make it a even more tactical
Make it a on-point-strike-no-shield=punish-weapon
- increase damage by 180% (new damage = 33.600)
- increase missle health by 8
- make it imune to Loyalist TMD (or more resistant)
- decrease AeO to 5
- keep the outer ring as a "shockwave" with 300 dmg (-200)

that are the three possibilities, i would like favourite 2 or 3 as it's not suppoesed to be a real nuke but a tactical nuke, if you think i slightly exaggerated with the values it's your time to discuss them now.

The current costs of the Billy are btw:
Upgrade:
Energy: 630000
Mass : 10800

Missle:
Energy: 451800
Mass : 3780

Question: Why not simply reduce the costs?
Answer: It would still be defended by one TMD (or Cybran bot) or one shield.. pretty ineffective in my opinion
Last edited by ColonelSheppard on 16 Feb 2013, 03:09, edited 6 times in total.
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Re: Buff the billy

Postby Arkansas » 16 Feb 2013, 02:33

Im opposed to any Billy buff unless the aeon are given somthing to counter it, else they are screwed lategame vs UEF.
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Re: Buff the billy

Postby ColonelSheppard » 16 Feb 2013, 02:38

I request a replay where the billy is used.
(games where one has 10 times mass of his opponent do not count)
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Re: Buff the billy

Postby _PG_ » 16 Feb 2013, 02:39

I liek shepards options of 2 or 3... all in all i'd be happy with leaving it as it is and just reduce the ridiculous cost for it
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Re: Buff the billy

Postby ColonelSheppard » 16 Feb 2013, 02:41

_PG_ wrote:all in all i'd be happy with leaving it as it is and just reduce the ridiculous cost for it

the problem in this case would be that it is still defended by one shield or one time, not speaking of Loyalists
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Re: Buff the billy

Postby Arkansas » 16 Feb 2013, 02:48

The point is though if it isn't defeated by one shield then aeon players will be able to do nothing about it.
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Re: Buff the billy

Postby ColonelSheppard » 16 Feb 2013, 03:01

Arkansas wrote:The point is though if it isn't defeated by one shield then aeon players will be able to do nothing about it.

if done a few tests: the aeon defence only misses if you fire it at the edge of the 12k dmg ring, so i updated my first post
if the range of the inner ring is decreased by about 12% Aeon TMD will be able to defend it

however keep in mind that this is only one of 3 possible solutions, if you dont like that one, give some intelligent thoughts on 2 and 3
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Re: Buff the billy

Postby Poch » 16 Feb 2013, 03:50

Hi,

1) I like the first option, because a like to see this weapon as a semi-expensive "problem solver" for semi-inextricable problems where, curiously, this solution fits perfectly !

Do not forget, your ACU has to be in range (= very vulnerable in some maps), and it would encourages brave moves where the player try to move undetected somewhere close to a weak point in ennemy defense and wipes it out. The way the weapon works makes it almost impossible to win a game just by it (countered by a few TMD/shields which are no problem to have at this point of the game). However, by taking out some strategic place it can helps you to effectively move your forces and maybe strike the ennemy where it hurts. (like a foreign base, a navy, or some heavy SAM concentration near ennemy frontier).

2) Maybe you could propose a cost, build time and picture some concrete examples of WHEN in a game it could happen and how effective/usefull/counterable it would be to help people get some number propositions ? The proposition #2 is cool, but depending on "availability", it is nice, OP, or useless ^^ Like it is described, i picture it as a weapon used to kill approaching / moving armies large T2 armies (then it should not be powerfull enough to wipe a full T3 forces with mobile shields, just make a respectable hole in it), or to have some desperate last resort T4 defense which will not blow your entire base. In that case it should be immune to loyalist too and not "just disappear" if it hits a mobile shield, no ? I think tactical missile is already middle/late T2 unless you rush it or you are on a big map. As it is the further upgrade, it should be slightly superior to T2, able to counter early T3 maybe ?

3) Without the missile being able to fire at moving targets, i do not see what kind of "30k+ hp expensive, opportunity, strategic target" i could fire at ? Except very vulnerable sitting ennemy ACU. With that much damage if building speed is OK, you can effectively defend against T4. If it is not moving, which is not likely near your ACU range. So right now, i do not see it, but maybe you can come with some examples of targets / availability ?

Whatever you do with billy, i think it HAS to have more health and become immune to loyalist reflect ability. I don't know what to do about aeon TMDs as they work in a stange way. Other people more competent on the subject could propose something if there is a problem i guess.

I rarely go for tac missile except for getting billy. I think a lot of people don't build it either and are not aware of its real cost/effectiveness. We use T2 static TM i think. Less expensive, and you can fire multiple missiles at once. Maybe you could look at it too to make it more usefull too ? For example, autofiring with a little more power than a T2 MML (big nerf of actual damage) would be GREAT to counter ennmy T2 PD creep without going T2/building, but rather in an offensive way. Or maybe just kill ennemy T2 PD to allow a last T1 assault attempt in early T2 if you are late on getting T2 factorys(mml) or engys.
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Re: Buff the billy

Postby Stratocaster » 16 Feb 2013, 08:12

I wouldn't mind a build time increase and maybe an energy cost decrease for the actual missile construction. With the ACU T3 Suite, the drain pretty much bottoms out your energy if you're not already bottomed out on mass. The inconvenience of having an energy black out makes it a pain to even consider using it.

I personally don't even ever make it, since the ACU TML is so useful, for a fraction of the cost. On top of that, the missiles build super fast. Sera's ACU TML needs like a dozen engineers or more to even match it.
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