Recall Jammer

Recall Jammer

Postby Hawkei » 21 Dec 2014, 14:48

I was mulling over past arguments on auto recall and particularly Rogueleader's comments on how there isn't a counter to it. Meaning that within a single match it is impossible to get an actual kill. Well I have a relatively simple solution. Create a structure which can prevent Auto recall.

I propose that this unit be a T3 structure, with a very high cost to be built on the battlefield. It cannot be summoned as an RF. It will have the effect that any enemy ACU auto-recall systems will become inoperative. Conventional recall will remain unchanged. The structure should cost 52000 mass, 720000 energy and have a build time of 36237 (which puts it somewhere between a nuke and a strategic artillery piece). It should have a unit size of 3 (same as SMD) and 2500 HP (requiring 2 TML to kill it). The unit should give no signal or warning to the other team that it is operational and it will also require power to operate. Drawing 5600 energy per second. It can be scouted through all the conventional means, and should use the T3 Counter Intel Structure Strategic Icon (or similar).

I'm open to the possibility of this structure being used as a planetary defence. Though it will need an inactive timer, much like missile launchers and artillery pieces.
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Re: Recall Jammer

Postby D4E_Omit » 21 Dec 2014, 15:47

This isn't a good solution, because it takes like 40 min to go t3 (and have that much mass left) anyways meaning that the enemy still has 40 min to rambo into your base and t1 rush..

My opinion : Autorecall is stupid and should be fully deleted, to bring back normal galactic war gameplay where average players actually could win vs pro :))
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Re: Recall Jammer

Postby Rogueleader89 » 22 Dec 2014, 02:58

Have to agree with D4E that this solution falls way too late in the tech tree. Also even if you moved it to be earlier you have the issue that there is currently no way to know if your opponent has autorecall without actually killing them, so you have to build this structure without knowing if it will accomplish anything or not.

Generally speaking, unless the auto-recall mechanic is changed in some significant way, I prefer a strategic level counter, in the tactical game you will either always build anti-recall because its so prevalent or auto-recall won't be worth getting and it will rarely be used, or the structure will be too expensive and autorecall will be almost as bad as it was last galactic war (all of this is of course assuming we have some way to tell if someone has auto-recall or not ingame). Its hard to make a good balance between autorecall and its counter in the way you have described.

Having a strategic level auto-recall jammer on the other hand can work if it takes the same slot as autorecall because it ends up being a risk vs reward thing, something you'll use in important fights but won't have on you all the time, especially if the jammer costs more than auto-recall itself; makes autorecall provide a good bit of protection to lower ranks while higher ranks will more often be met in battle by people who have the jammer.


But, as I've said in a few places now, I think the main thing that needs to be established in discussing auto-recall is what purpose we want it to serve. Personally I think it should be a good safety net for lower ranks, but I'm pretty sure the original intention was to make it so that higher ranks would play more games (not sure whether it actually accomplished this goal). If we have no good purpose for autorecall it should not exist, similarly if the purpose we want it to serve can be better handled by something else we should use something else. Regardless, without knowing the purpose we want it to accomplish we can't really propose good ideas for it, if your tactical jammer idea worked what purpose would it accomplish? It counters everyone evenly, or with where you have it at t3, it counters the person who has already horribly lost the game and just hasn't realized it or just doesn't know to manually recall, if you build one in an evenly matched game you've just sunk 52000 mass into a structure that provides no help at all to you in the tactical game, you should probably lose to a superior force at this point.
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Re: Recall Jammer

Postby Hawkei » 23 Dec 2014, 20:08

Thanks guys for your feedback. As to the question of function. I would recommend that the purpose of Auto-recall (AR) be for the protection of High Level Avatars. Because, high level avatars are the only ones with strategic value. Considering that level 1 and 2 losses are inconsequential, and level 3 losses are a minor concern.

In the previous GW Universe my recommendation was always that players not purchase an AR until the reached level 4 (The rank of Captain in the UEF team). For lower ranks it was almost always preferable to spend those credits on reinforcements (RF), and hence win more battles, avoiding the need for AR in the first place!

As for the function of a Recall Jammer. I would suggest that this device is to counter the certainty which AR provides. The situation where one might build such a device would be in preparation for a snipe attempt. Quite possibly in larger team games. As to your question of whether or not an ACU is equipped with AR, the answer is nearly always yes, for any high ranking avatar. Essentially, the construction of a Recall Jammer will have guaranteed certainty that a snipe attempt will translate into a confirmed kill and death of enemy avatar.

As a countering device I believe that the Recall Jammer should be scout-able (and hence knowable).This is an attribute which your ACU enhancement will not provide. The Question is: How will a player, in the game, know whether his opponent is configured for Auto-recall, or recall jamming? But if the Recall Jammer is a structure on the map, it is possible to verify whether one is being jammed by scouting for it. Furthermore, it is possible for the opponents to "Un-jam" themselves by destroying said structure. The Jammer would simply become another target within strategic level play. So I believe that this technology belongs firmly within T3 gameplay.

The other reason why I suggested that this device be a structure is so that the team building it will incur some economic penalty within the game. For this reason I would argue against making the structure cheaper. Especially considering that teams could pool resources to rush the jammer. Or alternatively have a player dedicated to rushing the jammer while others make a snipe. Of course the costs which I proposed are open to debate. But I think you will find that it would take a single players economy 20 minutes to rush the structure with the costs I indicated. Which is about where this technology ought to sit.


With the alternative ACU enhancement system proposed. A "hit squad" team would consist of 2 ACU's configured for AR, and 1 ACU configured for AR Jamming. The purpose of the two AR ACU's would be to engage in frontline combat, force the issue, and get the kill. While the Jamming ACU would sit back in relative safety and simply exist in the game as a "walking jammer". Hence ensuring that any kills made by his teammates were real ones ;) I think you will find that the altered meta-game will become highly predictable and dry.
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Re: Recall Jammer

Postby Deering » 25 Dec 2014, 09:10

I think you will find with the price of the jammer being 2 GCs a large percentage of the games will already be over due to reinforcements, a small map or entering the game with extra players. It needs to be more accessible than this.

Also, a tac missile does 6k damage so not sure what you mean with 2.5k health
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Re: Recall Jammer

Postby Hawkei » 25 Dec 2014, 13:46

Deering wrote:I think you will find with the price of the jammer being 2 GCs a large percentage of the games will already be over due to reinforcements, a small map or entering the game with extra players. It needs to be more accessible than this.

Also, a tac missile does 6k damage so not sure what you mean with 2.5k health


You're probably right there. Perhaps a smaller cost would be more acceptable. Maybe a 26000 mass structure, with a 360000 energy cost and -5000 energy drain per second, having 12000 HP would be a better 'ball park' figure. Any cheaper than this and I feel it would become OP for the capability it would provide. Especially in team games.
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Re: Recall Jammer

Postby Deering » 25 Dec 2014, 14:50

Maybe you could have the power cost scale to the number of enemy ACUs it jams
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Re: Recall Jammer

Postby ColonelSheppard » 25 Dec 2014, 15:06

Or make it counterable by another structure and scale the power with the amount of power the other guy is using :O
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Re: Recall Jammer

Postby Hawkei » 25 Dec 2014, 19:53

ColonelSheppard wrote:Or make it counterable by another structure and scale the power with the amount of power the other guy is using :O


That Structure already exists:
http://supcom.standardof.net/files/2012 ... UNCHER.png
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Re: Recall Jammer

Postby IceDreamer » 28 Dec 2014, 01:19

Nah, the solution is simple, you just make it cost like, 2500 credits per AR. High level avatars will be able to collect funds from their underlings to stay alive, bad players will never raise the funds to do it, and high level avatars will be able to distribute ARs around any team they take to a very important fight, if they so choose. It's about strategy and teamwork this way, not about building a structure in game, which can only lead to AR being useless if the building is cheap enough, or nothing changing if it isn't.
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