SCU Preset Refinements

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SCU Preset Refinements

Postby IceDreamer » 30 Sep 2014, 22:59

I'm about to begin work on the SCU presets. The main aim will be to integrate a RAS preset. The RAS preset will NOT benefit from Adjacency, making it a micro change rather than a balance one.

Now I've seen how these have been included though, and seeing how easy it is, I'd like feedback on the existing presets. If you think a preset's upgrades should be adjusted, or even if you think the name of the preset could be changed to be more accurate or descriptive, please post here.

I am also working on figuring out a way to give them proper build icons.
_______________________________________________________________________

UEF
Rambo Bubble Shield (ROF + AOE + Bubble)
RAS (RAS Only)
Base Helper (RAS + Drone)

Remove:
Combat (ROF + AOE)

Change:
IntelJammer (Give it the AOE upgrade - Usually used as part of a combat group no?

Cybran
RAS (RAS Only)
Base Helper (RAS + Engineering)

Remove:
Combat (EMP + Range)

Change:
AntiAir (Add EMP and Range for a full combat unit, T3 MAA has made this version useless)
Cloak (Add EMP blaster for full combat)
Stealth (Add EMP and Range for full combat)

Aeon
RAS (Ras Only)
Base Helper (RAS + Engineering)
TeleCombat (Teleport + Gun)

Remove
ShieldCombat (Gun + Shield. Everyone just builds the heavy shielded version)
SimpleCombat (Gun Only)

Seraphim
Telecombat (Teleport + Gun + Engineering)

Remove
Combat (Gun Only)
NanoCombat (Gun + Nano)

______________________________________________________________________

After realising that the UEF BubbleShield upgrade costs many times more Energy than the RAS upgrade, and yet is allowed to function with full adjacency, I'd like a proper debate on whether the new RAS presets should be allows adjacency bonus during construction or not, with reasoned arguments on both sides.
Last edited by IceDreamer on 01 Oct 2014, 22:22, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: SCU Preset Refinements

Postby Lame » 30 Sep 2014, 23:19

Scu ras is gay
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Re: SCU Preset Refinements

Postby Phlegm » 01 Oct 2014, 00:49

Isn't the RAS upgrade designed to stall your energy for some time?

If you divide the total cost over the built time of an SCU, it does not stall you anymore, or at least so hard.

I believe that aspect should not be overlooked.
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Re: SCU Preset Refinements

Postby IceDreamer » 01 Oct 2014, 00:56

Phlegm wrote:Isn't the RAS upgrade designed to stall your energy for some time?

If you divide the total cost over the built time of an SCU, it does not stall you anymore, or at least so hard.

I believe that aspect should not be overlooked.


The buildtime of each upgrade is added to that of the SCU. More heavily upgraded presets take longer.
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Re: SCU Preset Refinements

Postby Phlegm » 01 Oct 2014, 01:08

I just looked at the RAS upgrades of SCUs, and the rate was much lower than I thought it was.
Sorry, carry on!
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Re: SCU Preset Refinements

Postby zeroAPM » 01 Oct 2014, 12:41

Wouldn't be possible to create a SCU with integrated build command?

I'll explain better: just as it's possible to give a unit a order when built from a factory (rally point, attack move and combinations of the two for example) wouldn't be possible to make the SCU preset just "Basic SCU with a list of queued commands"?

So instead of having the SCU being built with all the fancy stuff, a run-off-the-mill SCU is built and immediately start upgrading itself.

A UI mod sort of thing.

So there will be no problem of "RAS preset with adjacency" because only the Quantum Gateway will benefit from it but the SCU not.

Short version: SCU get built->SCU start upgrade by itself
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Re: SCU Preset Refinements

Postby IceDreamer » 01 Oct 2014, 18:56

I think it's probably possible, but it's beyond my skillset (I can't do UI!). Also, the current method has a number of advantages. It allows some of the best uses of Adjacency bonus in the game, which for the most part is a good thing. It's impossible to forget to make an upgrade. Finally, code-wise, the way it's implemented makes it extremely easy for a novice coder to navigate and manipulate the system.
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Re: SCU Preset Refinements

Postby Sheeo » 01 Oct 2014, 19:24

zeroAPM wrote:Wouldn't be possible to create a SCU with integrated build command?

I'll explain better: just as it's possible to give a unit a order when built from a factory (rally point, attack move and combinations of the two for example) wouldn't be possible to make the SCU preset just "Basic SCU with a list of queued commands"?

So instead of having the SCU being built with all the fancy stuff, a run-off-the-mill SCU is built and immediately start upgrading itself.

A UI mod sort of thing.

So there will be no problem of "RAS preset with adjacency" because only the Quantum Gateway will benefit from it but the SCU not.

Short version: SCU get built->SCU start upgrade by itself


There exists mods for this already, but yes, you can make the button queue up commands for the unit that is being built.


I don't think it's very elegant, though...
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Re: SCU Preset Refinements

Postby zeroAPM » 01 Oct 2014, 23:01

Solves the problem of having the upgrades benefit from adjacency when they shouldn't and remove the hassle for manually upgrading them.

Also, could be used to expand on factories (since FAIK you can't tell the unit to automatically assist something like in PA) and the ACU (for example being able to queue a upgrade after a certain build order)

Spoiler: show
If we really want to get spiffy, maybe it would be nice to allow the ACU to queue buildings for the next tech level when it start upgrading like factories can
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Re: SCU Preset Refinements

Postby Lame » 02 Oct 2014, 00:25

Cybran:
there are lots of situation where stealth is usefull without the full combat upgrade - same goes for anti air if you drop them somewhere to build stealth bases tml or reclaim your concern is not beeing spotted or cleaned up by air - ground is not so relevant for these situations.

Aeon:
i dont see why heavy shield would be superior i costs about twice as much without giving twice as much health also if you go for only one shield on the start you can get another when the first is almost depleted getting health back extremely fast (388 hp/s just with base scu bp).

now for ras and teleport i see exactly no reason to get those presets - those upgrades are very powerfull and they are constantly beeing used ingame.

especially to counter teleport you need to spend attention yourself i dont see why this weapon of attack should be just spamable with 1 click.

the same goes for ras if you have the space to get those i see nothing wrong with it.
but when you are able to constantly increase your lategame economy just with one protected position while beeing under pressure with much less attention than at t2/t3 stage (no storage,engy assist,less complicated mass/power balance)
and that eco is harder to kill than at the previous stages and it can build shit really fast i think that turns from usefull to overpowered.
and as they only turn out so strong when you take away the attention it takes to get them i dont see why you would change that
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