Making the game more aggressive and varied.

[Bliss]

I agree with artillery issue

[CopyyyCattt]

Current reclaim has worked fine. Where are your replays showing how it needs to be nerfed?

It just makes sense. I have seen wreckage values it in other TA clones(all much lower).
Think about it.
85% means that you must be amazingly efficient with unit control compared to your enemy(much easier for a good player to just outeco such an outclassed opponent). You can't just be somewhat better with unit control, you have to be much much better to be able to harass, not get the wreckage and still come on top.
Lower wreckage values will keep wreckage important while making it a bit easier to outplay your enemy with better unit maneuvering and harass.

[BRNKoINSANITY]

TA clones != SupCom FA. Please stop trying to turn this into a spring RTS. We all love our game The reclaim values are fine, and do not need to be changed. Making it less valuable would make map control and mobility less important and turtling more effective (the opposite of what you say you want).

The Jester is a totally unique and very powerful unit... your assumption that it is a noob trap simply means that you can't use it correctly. Please don't think that because you don't like/use a unit it needs to be taken out.

Balancing mass fabs with mex is a HORRIBLE idea based on your premise. If they were balanced there would be no reason to ever expand, because you can just as easily get resources by staying in base. At the same time, current values are ok as if you MUST get more eco and all mex that are viable are claimed you can still build fab farms.

As for the AA, all tiers do their jobs and do them well.... if you can't see that I can't help you.

Again, going back to your premise of making the game more aggressive, making t3 and t4 arty more viable would make this game stupidly turtle oriented. The values set now are great, as they take a long time to build and are only viable on either large maps or in long games to break stalemates.

My two cents, take them as you will.

[CopyyyCattt]

Turtling is more effective when you can defend and reclaim more wreckage after an attack!
Higher wreckage values mean a defended line would get more wreckage as its being attacked to try and erode it.

I dont know what games you are basing your assumptions on.Look at SC.It has no reclaim whic hmeans when you attack anywhere what matters is how much more resources you managed ot kill than the amount you lost in units...You can attack anywhere since you do not need to be afraid of leaving wreckage...The game becomes more agressive with less wreckage value not the other way around.

Making the mavor a t3 unit does not mean the game is more porcy. There are many ways to balance it. You can have each shot cost E or have it requiring E to work...The unit can be balanced in such a way as to not promote porc(defense)..
It will of course have to be nerfed a lot to match a more humble cost.
It is a very cool concept.A Stationary defense being able to shoot through the entire map or a big part of it.
It was fine in TA, It was fine in spring, there is no reason why it cant be fine in FA.
It is just a shame to have such a cool building almost never be used.

If AA did its job you would often see games without Fighters.ATM fighters are a must in 99% of games, making static AA niche units and making gunships less useful.

Stop addressing me like im some noob who doesn't like a unit so wants it to be nerfed or removed, I dont appreciate that.
I like gunships Its just clear the balance ATM pushes them out to the fringe.
Gunships are air units meant to primarily deal with ground forces, so are bombers, so whats the difference? the difference is in the way the move as they attack.
Gunships do not need a lot of space to attack making the more beneficial when the enemy has static AA.
Bombers are good when the enemy has fighters since it ca deal burst dmg and die.
When fighters dominate each game gunships get pushed out of the balance.They got no role.

[Hawkei]

1) If the alt + right click doesn't work as anticipated, don't use it for that purpose. Try telling arty to guard your tanks, and set tanks to attack move. Send scouts to find fortifications, and use manual attack.

2) Wreckage values are a topic for discussion. I had always thought that 85% reclaim value was a tad high. Natural reclaimables are fine, but the yield for wreckage should be more like 65% or 75%. Which would actually make the rebuild feature a bit more meaningful. (Where rebuilding gives 50% mass, 50% energy and 50% build time). Bringing reclaim down a bit would encourage rebuilding more.

3) Gunships are fine. They do good damage to ground and they die to their intended counters. The thing about air combat is it is high paced, and things happen quickly. So spamming interceptors or ASF is a bit like spamming submarines in a naval fight. An airforce composed of AA has no ability to influence the ground battle. T1 gunships are best early, or when there is no AA in the area. They are best used on kill missions in isolated areas, when your opponent is not paying attention. They can also be used as a "911 force" inside your airspace to deal with raiders.

4) Mass fabs are fine. They are what they should be. Expensive and marginaly viable. The T2 variant is needed for that emergency scenario where my map control is critically short, or I have some early power to burn. The T3 fab is useful in the super late game, where unit cap would screw with T2 fabs. If I have to click my mouse, It has to be for more than +1 mass.

5) Land AA is awesome, you should use it. It is by its nature a DEFENSIVE unit. It does not need to chase air. It just needs to keep up with the units which it is defending. T2 flak does AoE damage. Add some mobile shields and it will easily take down restorers. As for Strat bombers and ASF. I'm pretty sure T2/T3 shields and SAM's can adequately defend. A dedicated AA defence will stop T3 air, or at least keep them out of your airspace.

6) Which artillery are you talking about? There is nothing to add, we never had them.

Methinks you are judging units capabilities according to narrow mission parameters which you have defined for yourself. Try to think of what units are good at, and use them that way instead.

[sjoOof]

@reclaim
I think the reason why reclaim is so high is the exponential nature of the economy. We need to adress the adjacency of mass storage and get a closer to linear economy before decreasing the reclaim or adjusting the mass fabricators.

[RoLa]

5)Anti Air.
ATM T3 air is a must and can go and do anything, the only counter is more T3 air..
This limits the game possibilities and IMO should be tweaked.

Please reconsider this for 1vs1:

lets say you build t2+t3 Air HQ Upgrade and 12 ASF
840+4090 + 12x350 = 9130

i build in the meantime
t3 land HQ upgrade and 4 Percis
or 3 perices and 1x t3 m.arty and 2 m.shield
4090 + 4 x 1280
4090 + 3 x 1280 + 800 + 2x120

for every t2 or t3 air to ground bomber or gunschip you build i can build some aa and a shield.

so there is actually a time slot where you are very vulnerable because you cannot counter the ground offensive. After that you propably will cripple my eco or go for my ACU with you air supierority but that could be to late!

[CopyyyCattt]

@reclaim
I think the reason why reclaim is so high is the exponential nature of the economy. We need to adress the adjacency of mass storage and get a closer to linear economy before decreasing the reclaim or adjusting the mass fabricators.

This is if you think GPG devs were planing it all and figuring it all out before making these values.
My guess would be that process was much more lighthearted.
They just decided on 85% cause they felt like it.
Whats the connection? Reclaim amounts depends on the economy. The more mass the more units you make and lose and the more wreckage you got.
Reducing Wreckage values by a % will not change this connection in any way.

[Hawkei]

I think reclaim is one of the ideas which CopyCat got right here. I take issue with the others, but, my gutt feel is that reclaim has always been set a little too high in this game. Mind you. I am specifically talking about wreckage reclaim. Not the natural reclaim of rocks and trees.

The values for wreckage reclaim ought to be more purposefully set out. It is one of those dials that as you turn up and down, have a significant imact on the economy and on gameplay. If you turn the dial down a bit, it gives sufficient reward to the defender to stay in the game. But not too much of a reward that an attacker is discouraged from attacking. I would not go as low as CopyCat. But I would say a figure between 65% and 75% would be enough... You must remember that wreckage is destructable by AoE weapons. So actual recovery is already less than 85%.

[SC-Account]

Reclaim is 81% not 85%..