SMD/SML, Novax and Quantum Gates

[Lieutenant Lich]

Hello everyone again!
I have three suggestions that I am too lazy to put into different topics and they all are small anyway.

1) I suggest to decrease the build time of anti nuke (not the structure but the anti nuke itself. And decrease the cost of the strategic missile on T3 subs, battleship and the structure itself. By several thousand of mass, I would say. Yes, I know that many will jump right at this and say that this will turn all games into nuclear wars. Answer: So what? If SMD is cheaper, it means that one can place it at every vital spot.

2) Make Novax significantly cheaper. Since it's a crappy experimental, why not make it much cheaper? If it is nullified by three or two T2 shields, then why the heck is it worth the same amount of mass as the Fatboy? Fatboy is definitely more useful that Novax.

3) Quantum gates. Yes, I suggested teleportation off-planet as defeat for the commander but without losing points. That was one of the ideas. This one is different - I suggest to add the possibility of teleporting units into any allied quantum gateway at no cost or teleporting units withing 5 km range of the Gate at energy price of {mass}x20 over 5 second period. This would allow to teleport coms into a safezone or to do mass Percival teleportations across the Rohan Ridges. If we are playing in the future as the game implies, we need to have future-like weapons and technologies.

[Gorton]

The problem with novax is that if you get a large number, they are pretty much stronger than a mavor, in equal mass (concentrated). Of course they have to travel, and you need the space (and to defend them). They also give sight - though this is not so important. Otherwise, it's absolutely useless, I agree.
I suggested several times to give it more utility options, I hope people can think of some.

[Iszh]

I dont like that novax and mavor have the same use and sat is better which means mavor is useless. I suggested to make another kind of exp out of it but people told no. Mavor and t3 arti are only useful with good intel. Otherwise the super nuke and paragon are better. If you are in defense you cant do shit with a mavor because you will not even sent 1 scout into enemy territory so you dont have targets. Sat is a spy which can scout even where no other unit can spy. But the point is why to built a mavor if you simply can spam your "scouts" which you need anyways. I asked for having the best intel unit in game for uef. Uef does not have a flying exp unit and no "walkthrought" exp unit. Sat should be a flying omni array with small vision.

Proposed Change in values:
-Remove Laser
-Add t3 omni radar stats for vision and radar/sonar/omni ranges
-5k mass cost no e cost while in use

Whats stupid about that idea, uef has left only 1 real experimental unit and 1 gameender exp. Atlantis is another t3 ship with bubble icon and the exp radar would not influence on games 20x20 in 90% of the time Since a normal t3 omni is already enough. So fatboy is the only normal exp unit left for uef and mavor is the gameender. Thats quite poor. Because of this i requested to improve t3 transport which is a special unit of uef to a "normal unit exp" alike salvation. So Uef would have a air exp, land exp and gameender. Same like seraphim.

People not happy with this idea i noticed, they dislike to make a t3 transport to an exp unit. i tested stats like
-10k mass cost and high built time to avoid adjacency bonus
-dual t3 gunship gun which is already in this plane -> 600 dps
-4x 160 dps sam which is double of atm -> 640 dps
-25k hp and 25k shield -> 50k hp

It would be some kind of overpriced super restorer which can drop units on enemies acu head in lategame xD

Thats just some ideas ..... but i think they are way to big change and mostly things like this dont happen. So we stay with this useless situation of having 2 different weapons for the same function.

[ZeRen]

dont forget that Novax indestructible, firing scout

[Iszh]

For scouting role not enough scouting abilities not even sonar and to expensive. It is taking away any use for mavor in its damage role since spamming them brings better and times faster effect. Idk why but i dont like this unit. I would like to use it for permanent scouting but the use a 28k mass unit to stand over a shielded base and doing nothing than visial effect sucks. It has to work killing mexes or stuff and so it cant be used for scouting.

[biass]

For scouting role not enough scouting abilities not even sonar and to expensive. It is taking away any use for mavor in its damage role since spamming them brings better and times faster effect. Idk why but i dont like this unit. I would like to use it for permanent scouting but the use a 28k mass unit to stand over a shielded base and doing nothing than visial effect sucks. It has to work killing mexes or stuff and so it cant be used for scouting.

so maybe less damage but cheaper and bigger intel ranges?

[Iszh]

Nice idea but we might face the problem that this kind of weapon is op if it is cheaper. Just imagine a 14k mass cost sat with 50 dps which cant be stopped. It will be very early and kill tons of engis because base is not shielded. Not so much fun. The weapon has only 150 dps and is already good for 28k mass. If this thing has more intel and reduced cost the weapon cant stay there. I cannot really see a good solution. Removing exp and make intel out of it .... no other unit will become exp and uef will suffer. Let it stay like it is and it will never change this uncomfortable situation.

[briang]

Quantum gate as a way to not lose points in a game is just dumb, it isn't expensive enough for that. Can you imagine playing a 3 hour game and your opponent just gating off when he thinks he's behind?

SMD and nukes are already carefully balanced. Why should we turn games into low quality nuke spam? I've got no idea why you think that's an attractive option.

Teleporting units is a thing in Supreme Commander 2 and it is awful... It has no place in FAF balance, it would just be utterly overpowered unless you gave it some MASSIVE cost. Even then it simply doesn't fit in.

[Gorton]

Personally I'd like to give it a truly massive jamming field like the seraphim crystals. Moving units, tons of units, etc.

[Lieutenant Lich]

For scouting role not enough scouting abilities not even sonar and to expensive. It is taking away any use for mavor in its damage role since spamming them brings better and times faster effect. Idk why but i dont like this unit. I would like to use it for permanent scouting but the use a 28k mass unit to stand over a shielded base and doing nothing than visial effect sucks. It has to work killing mexes or stuff and so it cant be used for scouting.

so maybe less damage but cheaper and bigger intel ranges?

To biass:
Dude. Novax already is weak and you want it even weaker? Really?

To Izsh:
1) Novax and Mavor are not the same - Mavor is many times stronger.
2) A situation where the player with Mavor doesn't have Omni or doesn't know his enemy's location is VERY rare. You need to look at the most situations. And in the most of the situations on 10x10 maps, the most common stationary experimentals are Salvation and Novax. Mavor - I never saw it on 10x10 maps. And I can't play on bigger because I lag very hard. So take that in account.
3) UEF doesn't need another experimental. It does need, however, an improvement of the current ones. Atlantis is pretty effective if you have the resources to run it. Novax is the experimental that needs to have either a significantly lower cost or significantly higher damage (like 6000 damage over 1 second with 5 seconds reload time). I like the thing with higher DPS more than the cost. But it is up to the FAF team to decide.

To briang:
1) I didn't say that gating off-planet should be cheap. Maybe a price of 20000 mass and 200 000 energy would be sufficient. Maybe add points to the winner without taking them from the loser?
2) OK, the nukes topic is closed. I get your point.
3) Teleportation is by far not the worst thing from Supreme Commander 2. It is one of the good ones. The idea of research is strange and is probably the most balance changing one in SC2. Not suggesting to add that.