LOUD AI & Game Speed Improvement Project

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Re: LOUD AI & Game Speed Improvement Project

Postby Professor » 16 Mar 2017, 13:23

I think the game has some issues with certain sound setups, my headset has issues sometimes while my 5.1 sound system works fine these days.

The LOUD AI is extremely impressive, much better than the AI I've played against in other games. It's a pity developers don't do a better job with it considering a massive proportion of the player base normally play against AI exclusively, it's not even an issue exclusive to RTS.
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Re: LOUD AI & Game Speed Improvement Project

Postby Sprouto » 16 Mar 2017, 13:55

Well, as the lead 'developer' for LOUD, I can say we didn't set out to make a better AI for everyone, just for ourselves. Like yourself, we were pretty disappointed with what there was, and personally, I had pretty much given up on the game entirely prior to the release of Forged Alliance. I give all credit to Sorian, who demonstrated that it was possible to make more than just cosmetic changes.

I'm pleased that we can share this work with others, and honestly, it's still a work in progress - but it's a fairly massive undertaking. It went far beyond the AI, and really, the best part of all, is that there is still a community actively working on it. Even now, after 5+ years, I still find 'gems' of incomplete features that were planned, but never implemented.
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Re: LOUD AI & Game Speed Improvement Project

Postby DrSys » 17 Mar 2017, 00:04

@Mofunkles

Generally, sound (whether "onboard" or through an expansion card/usb) settings will default to 5.1 or whatever the highest setting is available. That means that once LOUD is installed, you may need to go back into the sound application (often not windows sounds) and set the speaker system back to stereo instead of surround. If you can advise what type of sound system your PC is using, I can see if I can find what needs to be checked for ya.
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Re: LOUD AI & Game Speed Improvement Project

Postby Mofunkles » 17 Mar 2017, 00:32

I have it set to stereo, I was just checking there wasn't some .ini tweak related to SupCom that I was missing or something. As I say, if I swap from LOUD to Original then all the sound/music works perfectly. Although I've also noticed the music volume slider is missing in the options in LOUD, not just that there isn't music playing... so I don't know what that is about.
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Re: LOUD AI & Game Speed Improvement Project

Postby Sprouto » 17 Mar 2017, 03:55

There are many tiny optimizations in LOUD, and the removal of the music files was one of them -- not so much for performance, since that hit is incredibly small, but more to further shrink the size of the LOUD install.

Concerning the sound issues, I should ask Tanksy to chip in on this subject, as I do believe he had a similar issue as yours with sound.
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Re: LOUD AI & Game Speed Improvement Project

Postby HTKatzmarek » 17 Mar 2017, 15:07

The UI fix is right here;

Place the file from this Dropbox link, in your GAMEDATA folder;

https://www.dropbox.com/s/oqwmmo10xfg3t6x/lua.scd?dl=0



The updates including this fix are now available via the SCFA Updater program.

As a reminder, the SCFA Updater program can be found here:
https://www.adrive.com/public/tq6AYg/SCFA_Updater.exe
and must be in the root directory of your game installation.
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Re: LOUD AI & Game Speed Improvement Project

Postby HTKatzmarek » 19 Mar 2017, 04:07

There was a bad version of the lua.scd file that was causing the AI not to play it's best. Please update your game by using the updater program above to make sure you have the latest version of the AI.
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Re: LOUD AI & Game Speed Improvement Project

Postby Mofunkles » 19 Mar 2017, 11:38

Okay, had a big long game of this tonight. AI is definitely really really good, way better than Sorian. Though just a couple of issues/suggestions:
  • I find the AI to be a wee bit passive. It builds gigantic numbers of units but never really seems to commit them beyond small air-drops. At one point the AI had such a gigantic blob of bricks/monkeylords that if it just attack-moved my base I probably would have lost, but they just kind of massed in one location and never moved.
  • Even AI groups that have been air dropped nearby my base seem to not attack, but just mill around the drop area.
  • To add to that I find that their aircraft seem passive to a fault. I've launched air raids on AI bases that had tonnes of enemy aircraft sat idle on the ground that never fly up to defend.
  • I don't think the AI air drops scale too well towards the late game. The size of them feels pretty good early-mid game, but late game they use the same 6-8 transports they used early on and it just isn't enough at that point.
  • Then a suggestion that I'm not sure is possible. But if an AI team could coordinate an airdrop. That is if it was a 4 player team, all 4 of them drop on the same player at the same time - that could lead to some pretty intense fights!
  • Last suggestion is perhaps have the AI launch more concerted air raids / bombing raids on bases. At present I only ever saw bombers swarm in if they spotted my building an experimental artillery piece. They could have harassed the crap out of me all game however with how air dominant they were - possibly even won just by sustained bombing.

That said I don't know if these issues could be related to how I setup my game. This was a 4v4, non-cheating AI, 1000 pop cap, no mods. So I don't know if there is a preferred game rule / mod setup you recommend?

Cheers.
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Re: LOUD AI & Game Speed Improvement Project

Postby stashrider » 19 Mar 2017, 17:18

@Mofunkles : Thanks for feedback, we hope you are enjoying Loud and we appreciate the comments as it helps us make the tweaks to LOUD so please report any observations you have. A few things I can talk about, the rest may be best to hear from Sprouto. The cheat levels certainly play a part, A non-cheater is what we aspire too, meaning, that we hope that LOUD gets to a point that he plays competitively without the bonuses. Loud is not quite at that stage yet but is getting closer. Until then, your best success will be bumping the levels. We generally use 1.1 as the bonuses and sometimes 1.15 (depends on the map and team set up). If you are new to LOUD you may want to scale your cheats as you get comfortable. Maps play a role too, we use 40km maps which are optimal. 20km are ok, and anything less than that and LOUD will struggle to compete. On a 40 km map LOUD may not have the fuel to fly to your base for targets unless he has developed a forward base and has transferred planes to that new base. So, his operations may be limited.

Also, are you using the latest update, as mentioned above by HTKatzmarek there was a bug so I am not sure if that may be related to the AI not moving his units around. The latest patch is available.

Unfortunately, it is not possible to have the AI as a team co-ordinate. As a group we have talked about that before and it is something we all would like to see but at the moment it cannot be done.

In terms of transports, he is always stronger early when the air game is not as developed. With the cheat bonuses you would certainly see more transports in play later but if you have a strong air game it will deter him from using them (which is intended as LOUD wont always throw his transports over dangerous areas).

In terms of bombing raids, its tricky, in our games the AI is less successful at big bomber raids because the air power is often too much for him. However, if you have ideas on what might work feel free to discuss because it could be implemented depending. LOUD has priorities for his bombers, I cannot remember the order but intelligence buildings, experimentals, nuke defense and economic buildings are considered high value targets so it is no surprise if he is attempting to bomb them. For example, if you build a forward base with radar LOUD may find the radar to be high value enough that he attempts to destroy with Bombers or Gunships. We are always having dialogue on how best LOUD can use his air game but generally by the mid to late game it becomes difficult because our own air power is too much. Further, if the area is heavy with shields and AA guns it becomes even less desirable for him to attack. Instead, you may find that he uses his air units in a more defensive role as you get closer to his base.

When you say no mods, are you talking about external mods you use or the multiple mods that come with LOUD?

Keep the feedback coming, thanks for taking the time to post. For comparison, I would suggest playing a 40 km map ( Fields of ISIS or Hills of Havoc) are two good maps for LOUD, use all the MODs from LOUD and bump the levels to say 1.05 or 1.1 and try for comparison. Let us know if you see any differences.

Enjoy Mofunkles and we look forward to your feedback!

Stash.
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Re: LOUD AI & Game Speed Improvement Project

Postby paxton676 » 19 Mar 2017, 18:04

For the music removed. I liked having it and also the original supreme commander music. I extracted the .xwb music file from both supcom and supcom FA so I could play in media player outside game to put music back in it. Only thing is that some of the music tracks that queued up specifically for certain actions like reclaiming a structure don't trigger without a script. In FAF and FA you could install an original supcom music mod that added original supcom music to game with FA music and had .scd file with script so music trigger at right time.

Anyway, I would prefer to play loud with FA music in and add support for the original supcom music mod too. For me, removing music is opposite direction I wanted you to go on this. Just my preference. I know you can't please everyone.

Maybe someday this could be part of a second version of LOUD mod that retains most original game with simspeed improvement but not full aggressive performance increase? I don't know.
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