LOUD AI & Game Speed Improvement Project

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Re: LOUD AI & Game Speed Improvement Project

Postby stashrider » 11 Mar 2017, 21:45

If Tanksy fixed the issue it may be in for the next update, updates are quite frequent.
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Re: LOUD AI & Game Speed Improvement Project

Postby paxton676 » 11 Mar 2017, 21:51

I am impressed with your quick response to feedback. Thanks so much. You make me happy. game is fun. You guys kick ass! :)
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Re: LOUD AI & Game Speed Improvement Project

Postby Tanksy » 11 Mar 2017, 23:54

About the Steam version:

The exe from Steam shows its version as v1.6.6
The exe from LOUD/from CD shows its as v1.5.3603

I fixed my audio issues I originally had with LOUD, and my solution (it seems) was through copying over the DLL files from the bin directory of the steam version of the game, to the bin directory created by the LOUD updater. I have a hunch it's due to the DLL files that were provided by the Updater, being straight from the CD version of the game not correctly working with the hardware accelerated sound setting that is in place on more modern Windows operating systems. (As it is in Windows 10, for example; you can't change Hardware Accelerated sound settings through the DXDIAG tool.)

The DLL files provided with the Steam version of the game are probably kept more up-to-date, and the exe itself has had some changes made to it compared with the CD version -- Although this is probably just the Steam API, Steam DRM and Steamworks Multiplayer systems. (The "Multiplayer Lobby" changes.) There seems to be no other differences except the multiplayer lobby, and the versioning of the game. For example; The GPGnet code and files still remain in place, and are just overridden by the Steam lobby.

The reason the Steam exe might be reaching the 32-Bit memory limitations is due to the use of the Steam API and such changes. Although I would recommend against trying to use the Steam exe with LOUD, as LOUD wasn't created with the steam exe version of the game so it won't be specifcally tailored to it.

Currently I'm not looking into the exact differences, but have been making adjustments to a separately installed, unpacked version of the LOUD mod to see exactly which files are needed and which are not, what code functions are used and what are not. Overall reducing the memory used. EG: Only 5 of the Movie files are ever used by LOUD, so the rest are scrapped. Campaign audio files are scrapped. Old systems that weren't finished -- such as the Weather system, are scrapped. The game's Ambient and Music audio is also scrapped, as these were large files in the memory. None of these file removal changes have really been put into the live LOUD version, until I root out all the functions that may possibly be making calls to use these missing files. I like the idea that LOUD should be running in a separate directory entirely as a separate installation of the game, and only have the exact files it needs, but I've still to really pitch this idea to the creator of the Updater, as it would be down to him to make the updater create this "new directory" for LOUD.

TL;dr - Steam version uses more memory because API, DRM and Steamworks. That's probably why it's more prone to memory crashes.
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Re: LOUD AI & Game Speed Improvement Project

Postby paxton676 » 12 Mar 2017, 04:38

Tanksy wrote:About the Steam version:

The exe from Steam shows its version as v1.6.6
The exe from LOUD/from CD shows its as v1.5.3603

I fixed my audio issues I originally had with LOUD, and my solution (it seems) was through copying over the DLL files from the bin directory of the steam version of the game, to the bin directory created by the LOUD updater. I have a hunch it's due to the DLL files that were provided by the Updater, being straight from the CD version of the game not correctly working with the hardware accelerated sound setting that is in place on more modern Windows operating systems. (As it is in Windows 10, for example; you can't change Hardware Accelerated sound settings through the DXDIAG tool.)

The DLL files provided with the Steam version of the game are probably kept more up-to-date, and the exe itself has had some changes made to it compared with the CD version -- Although this is probably just the Steam API, Steam DRM and Steamworks Multiplayer systems. (The "Multiplayer Lobby" changes.) There seems to be no other differences except the multiplayer lobby, and the versioning of the game. For example; The GPGnet code and files still remain in place, and are just overridden by the Steam lobby.

The reason the Steam exe might be reaching the 32-Bit memory limitations is due to the use of the Steam API and such changes. Although I would recommend against trying to use the Steam exe with LOUD, as LOUD wasn't created with the steam exe version of the game so it won't be specifcally tailored to it.

Currently I'm not looking into the exact differences, but have been making adjustments to a separately installed, unpacked version of the LOUD mod to see exactly which files are needed and which are not, what code functions are used and what are not. Overall reducing the memory used. EG: Only 5 of the Movie files are ever used by LOUD, so the rest are scrapped. Campaign audio files are scrapped. Old systems that weren't finished -- such as the Weather system, are scrapped. The game's Ambient and Music audio is also scrapped, as these were large files in the memory. None of these file removal changes have really been put into the live LOUD version, until I root out all the functions that may possibly be making calls to use these missing files. I like the idea that LOUD should be running in a separate directory entirely as a separate installation of the game, and only have the exact files it needs, but I've still to really pitch this idea to the creator of the Updater, as it would be down to him to make the updater create this "new directory" for LOUD.

TL;dr - Steam version uses more memory because API, DRM and Steamworks. That's probably why it's more prone to memory crashes.


Thank you for the detailed answer.

The loading screen in original supreme commander(NOT Forged Alliance) seems to be not stretched in widescreen resolutions and is much prettier than Forged Alliance load screen overall. You think that is something that could be ported over to forged alliance LOUD? I feel a bit silly even mentioning it since it is just a load screen but am still curious. Maybe removing the load screen could lower memory usage a bit more?

I don't see the AI taunt chat messages/audio with the LOUD AI mod. Was that to lower memory usage too? or did you guys just find it annoying? I am not suggesting it be added to game, just curious.
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Re: LOUD AI & Game Speed Improvement Project

Postby Sprouto » 12 Mar 2017, 04:55

I still have the Sorian AI taunts system included internally, but turned off. Yes. It could be annoying. The AI chat mechanism from Sorian is active and slightly expanded, including a feature where a LOUD AI will report certain intel information directly to human teammates, in addition to the original features.

We have repaired the reported visual glitch in todays patch (PumpkinOrange) which should be available shortly after this post was made.
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Re: LOUD AI & Game Speed Improvement Project

Postby Tanksy » 12 Mar 2017, 11:12

@Paxton

I'll have a look. Do you mean the loading screen for each faction, when entering a game? Or the loading screen for when the exe is launched? (Because those are soon to never appear again)
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Re: LOUD AI & Game Speed Improvement Project

Postby paxton676 » 12 Mar 2017, 11:23

Tanksy wrote:@Paxton

I'll have a look. Do you mean the loading screen for each faction, when entering a game? Or the loading screen for when the exe is launched? (Because those are soon to never appear again)


Thanks for looking into it. I would say make this a low priority, if you decide to do anything at all about it. :)

I meant the loading screen for each faction when entering game. They are stretched to widescreen? not correct FOV?

I think there might have been only one for all factions in original supcom but seemed to not be stretched and my opinion better looking.

There is a mod in these forums called nomads where they added a new faction to the game and its loading screen was correct field of view and not stretched to widescreen.

Maybe they are just videos in Forged Alliance and in original Supcom something else, not sure.
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Re: LOUD AI & Game Speed Improvement Project

Postby Tanksy » 12 Mar 2017, 14:26

I'll have a look. I assume they're movies in original Supreme Commander too -- Seeing as the games are basically the same.

I'll see what it's like, and discuss it with the other guys. It's nothing really important, though. Right now I'm more focussed on furthering performance improvements and lowering memory use. So if the movies are a big size file, they probably won't be put in. But, like I said, I'll see what the others say.
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Re: LOUD AI & Game Speed Improvement Project

Postby paxton676 » 13 Mar 2017, 12:37

All the work you are doing to lower memory usage is great. :)

I am just a gamer so this might be a really dumb question. Could there maybe be a 64 bit version of the game someday? to help with the memory limitation.

I have another thought. Maybe someday there will be two versions of the mod. One that is all about maximum performance and another where simspeed is only performance improvement and retain all graphical features and not care about framerate, gpu stress stuff? My thinking is for high end hardware users who want optimized game.

If something like this happened someday, I would donate $50 through paypal. We just need 1 million more people to agree. Then you have your 50 million dollars and I have my 64 bit simspeed optimized game. :) lol Its a pipe dream, I know.

Seriously though, what you have done already is worth $50 donation. Do you take donation? PM me.

Too bad the mindless masses are all out there playing FPS games like call of duty instead of this RTS gem. I like FPS games too just making a point about where all the money goes.

I have PC, PS3, XBOX360, and a PS4 Pro(100 games installed thanks to latest patch for external hardrive support) but still choose to spend my time with Supccom FA. lol

They try to make better RTS over the years but ain't happening.
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Re: LOUD AI & Game Speed Improvement Project

Postby HTKatzmarek » 13 Mar 2017, 16:30

@ paxton676

Hi, it's great to hear you're enjoying our version of the game. It would be great to have a 64-bit version of the game, however, we would need the source code to recompile the game, and even then it would be a huge effort. We've talked about it in passing, as it would solve the memory limit, and also allow the possibility of making things more multi-threaded and use multiple CPU cores. However, without the source code, there's no possibility of even looking at doing this.

Feel free to join us sometimes on our Teamspeak server. If you're interested, let us know, and we can PM you the information.

We don't currently have anything setup for donations, but we do appreciate the thought!
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