BlackOps ACUs : full weapon upgrade

[CybranLord]

Hello everyone,
I have a question about the BlackOps ACUs mod, specifically about the weapons upgrades (not the engineering ones but the true weapons options on the right arm) : what are exactly the DPS and range of each weapon when fully upgraded ?

I have this impression that the Aeon ACU Phazon Beam is way over (both in DPS and range) the equivalent options of the other ACUs (UEF Gattling, Cybran Mazer and Seraphim Energy Gattling) when fully upgraded and it cost about the same as the other upgrades (the last Cybran Mazer upgrade is the most expensive) ?

Of course, I know that the mod is designed with all upgrades in mind (the Aeon ACU didn't have a true weapon on its Combat Engineering upgrade and no real backpack weapon) but this Phason Beam upgrade seems odd to me.

Thanks for your answer.

[Uveso]

Hello CybranLord,

welcome to FAForever!

If you want to know the exact damage values take a look into the ACU unit-blueprint:
AEON
https://github.com/aeoncleanse/Mods/blob/develop/BlackOps/BlackOpsFAF-ACUs/units/EAL0001/EAL0001_unit.bp
UEF
https://github.com/aeoncleanse/Mods/blob/develop/BlackOps/BlackOpsFAF-ACUs/units/EEL0001/EEL0001_unit.bp
CYBRAN
https://github.com/aeoncleanse/Mods/blob/develop/BlackOps/BlackOpsFAF-ACUs/units/ERL0001/ERL0001_unit.bp
SERAPHIM
https://github.com/aeoncleanse/Mods/blob/develop/BlackOps/BlackOpsFAF-ACUs/units/ESL0001/ESL0001_unit.bp

The Aeon upgrade "EnergizedMolecularInducer" activates the weapon "PhasonBeam03".
Now open the file for the Aeon blueprint and search for the line:

Code: Select all

Label = 'PhasonBeam03',

After you found the table with all weapondata for the "EnergizedMolecularInducer" weapon, you can start to calculate the dps:

DPS = Damage * ProjectilesPerOnFire * RateOfFire

The weapon has the following values available:
Damage = 630, (the damage that a single shoot makes)
RateOfFire = 10, (shoots that will be firered per second)
ProjectilesPerOnFire is not present on this weapon so we can ignore this here.

So,
DPS = Damage * RateOfFire
6300 = 630 * 10

Makes 6300 damage per second from the PhasonBeam03 that comes with the EnergizedMolecularInducer enhancement.

[CybranLord]

Hello Uveso,
thanks for the link to the code for each ACUs and your answer.

I checked every .bp and every lua scripts (I have done some modding before in SupCom so I understand how this works) and if I understand correctly, those are the values for each ACUs for the "continuous" weapon option (UEF and Seraphim Gatlings, Cybran Mazer and Aeon Phason Beam) :

Code: Select all

UEF Gatling :
Damage : 75 (initial) +175 (upgrade 1) +550 (final upgrade)
ROF : 1
Max Range : 35 (initial), 40 (upgrade 1), 45 (final upgrade)
ProjectilesPerOnFire = 1 (every upgrade)
DamageRadius = 1 (every upgrade)
-> 800 DPS total when fully upgraded. I think I miss something here, because it is far lower than the other ACUs.

Code: Select all

Seraphim Gatling :
Damage : 75 (initial) +225 (upgrade 1) +650 (final upgrade)
ROF : 3
Max Range : 30 (initial), 35 (upgrade 1 and final upgrade)
ProjectilesPerOnFire = 1 (not mentionned so I assume 1)
DamageRadius = not mentionned so I assume it is single target only
-> 950 * 3 = 2850 DPS when fully upgraded

Code: Select all

Cybran Mazer :
Damage : 15 (initial), 60 (upgrade 1), 240 (final upgrade)
ROF : 10
Max Range : 22 (initial, no modifier in the script so I assume the default range), 30 (upgrade 1 and final upgrade)
DamageRadius = 1 (every upgrade)
-> 2400 DPS when fully upgraded

Code: Select all

Aeon Phason Beam :
Damage : 20 (initial), 140 (upgrade 1), 630 (final upgrade)
ROF : 10
Max Range : 35 (initial), 40 (upgrade 1 and final upgrade)
DamageRadius = 1 (initial and upgrade 1), 2 (final upgrade)
-> 6300 DPS when full upgraded

As I suspected, the Aeon Phason Beam is far better in DPS than the equivalent of the other ACUs. I know thoses upgrades are balanced with all the upgrades of the ACUs in mind but is there any reason why the Aeon ACU have so so much more DPS on its Phason Beam (more than the double !!!) ? Cybran and Seraphim are relatively equivalent (roughly around ~2600 DPS) and I think I missed something with the calculation for the UEF ACU.

And that's not even including the cost of each upgrade, where the final upgrades cost are :

Code: Select all

UEF :
BuildCostEnergy = 525000,
BuildCostMass = 4500,
BuildTime = 18000,

Code: Select all

Seraphim :
BuildCostEnergy = 300000,
BuildCostMass = 3000,
BuildTime = 14400,

Code: Select all

Cybran :
BuildCostEnergy = 900000,
BuildCostMass = 6300,
BuildTime = 21600,

Code: Select all

Aeon :
BuildCostEnergy = 525000,
BuildCostMass = 4500,
BuildTime = 18000,

UEF's and Aeon's cost the same, Seraphim's is cheaper and Cybran's upgrade is by far the most expensive. But this is the least of my worries for this mod.

[Uveso]

Ah, you are a coder

Here is a function for all weapons and how to calculate the DPS:
(With debug print to the log window/file)

Code: Select all

function GetWeaponDPS(bp,weapon)
    local DPS = {}
    DPS.Damage = 0
    DPS.RateOfFire = 0
    DPS.DPS = 0

    -- enable debug text
    local bugtext = false

    local WeaponEco = __blueprints[weapon.ProjectileId].Economy or nil
    if WeaponEco and bp.Economy.BuildRate > 1 and WeaponEco.BuildTime > 1 and (WeaponEco.BuildCostEnergy > 1 or WeaponEco.BuildCostMass > 1) then
        if bugtext == true then
            LOG(' BuildTime')
        end
        local MuzzleSalvoSize = weapon.MuzzleSalvoSize or 1
        DPS.RateOfFire = 1 / (__blueprints[weapon.ProjectileId].Economy.BuildTime / bp.Economy.BuildRate)
        if weapon.NukeInnerRingDamage > 0 then
            DPS.Damage = weapon.NukeInnerRingDamage + weapon.NukeOuterRingDamage
        else
            DPS.Damage = weapon.Damage * MuzzleSalvoSize
        end               
    elseif weapon.DoTPulses then
        if bugtext == true then
            LOG(' DoTPulses')
        end
        DPS.RateOfFire = 1 / (math.round(10/weapon.RateOfFire) / 10)
        DPS.Damage = weapon.Damage * weapon.MuzzleSalvoSize * weapon.DoTPulses
    elseif weapon.ContinuousBeam then
        -- ual0401
        if bugtext == true then
            LOG(' Continuous Beam')
        end
        --LOG(' weapon.BeamCollisionDelay='..weapon.BeamCollisionDelay)
        local temp = weapon.BeamCollisionDelay == 0 and 1 or weapon.BeamCollisionDelay
        --LOG(' temp='..temp)
        DPS.RateOfFire = 1 / (weapon.BeamCollisionDelay == 0 and 1 or weapon.BeamCollisionDelay)
        DPS.Damage = weapon.Damage * 10
    elseif (weapon.BeamLifetime and weapon.BeamLifetime > 0) then
        -- xsb2301 xea0002
        if bugtext == true then
            LOG(' Pulse Beam')
        end
        local BeamCollisionDelay = weapon.BeamCollisionDelay or 0
        local BeamLifetime = weapon.BeamLifetime or 1
        if BeamLifetime > 5 then
            BeamLifetime = 5
        end
        DPS.RateOfFire = 1 / (math.round(10/weapon.RateOfFire) / 10)
        DPS.Damage = weapon.Damage * BeamLifetime * 10
    elseif (weapon.RackSalvoReloadTime and weapon.RackSalvoReloadTime > 0) and not weapon.RackSalvoFiresAfterCharge then
        if bugtext == true then
            LOG(' Salvos')
        end
        -- Salvos don't use weapon.RateOfFire
        DPS.RateOfFire = 1 / ((weapon.MuzzleSalvoSize * weapon.MuzzleSalvoDelay + weapon.RackSalvoReloadTime))
        DPS.Damage = weapon.Damage * weapon.MuzzleSalvoSize
    else
        -- ueb2101
        if bugtext == true then
            LOG(' One Shot')
        end
        local ProjectilesPerOnFire = weapon.ProjectilesPerOnFire or 1
        local AttackGroundTries = weapon.AttackGroundTries or 1
        local MuzzleSalvoSize = weapon.MuzzleSalvoSize or 1
        -- don't use ProjectilesPerOnFire if MuzzleSalvoSize is present.
        if MuzzleSalvoSize > 1 and ProjectilesPerOnFire > 1 then
            if MuzzleSalvoSize ~= ProjectilesPerOnFire then
                WARN('unit ['..bp.BlueprintId..'] has wrong ProjectilesPerOnFire in Weapon ['..weapon.DisplayName..']')
            end
            ProjectilesPerOnFire = 1
        end
        DPS.RateOfFire = 1 / (math.round(10/weapon.RateOfFire) / 10)
        DPS.Damage = weapon.Damage * MuzzleSalvoSize * ProjectilesPerOnFire
    end
    if DPS.RateOfFire == 0 then DPS.RateOfFire = 1 end
    --LOG(' Damage: '..DPS.Damage..' - RateOfFire: '..DPS.RateOfFire..' - new DPS: '..(DPS.Damage*DPS.RateOfFire))
    DPS.DPS = DPS.Damage*DPS.RateOfFire
    return DPS
end


This function is included inside my (private) tooltip mod:
(the mod can also display all ACU weapons)
http://faforever.uveso.de/forum/SmartUnitTooltipV2.zip
(Needs option "Show Armament Build in Factory Menu" enabled)

This mod also displays the original FAF game calculation and Hussars calculation from the unit manager.
You will see that all 3 DPS values from the different sources almost have the same dps.


But you can't calculate all weapons correctly because you don't have all needed date inside the unit blueprints.
There are some weapons with racks or multiple shoots that can't be calculated without a helper-variable added to the unitblueprint.

[CybranLord]

Thanks for your tooltip. I will check the DPS of all weapons when I have time and I will post every value for every weapons here.

[Uveso]

If you have any suggestions for changes/balancing, just post it here or make an issue on git Hub:
https://github.com/aeoncleanse/Mods/issues

[CybranLord]

Hello and Happy New Year.

I think my first suggestion for balancing the Phason Beam for the Aeon ACU is to either :
1) tone down the last Phazon Beam upgrade to have similar DPS than the others ACUs (around 2500-3000). It still can be higher than the rest but I think it can be toned down, especially with its actual price.
2) adjusting the upgrade price, this weapon is cheaper/has the same cost (mass/energy/time) than the others but is too far superior than its others factions' equivalents (cf statistics above).
3) doing both of my suggestions.

For this suggestion, I will examine all ACUs first before posting the ticket (I can be biased so I prefer to have a true global view of the mod before).

I have another suggestion in mind (far more general for this one) for the veterancy of the ACUs with this mod. As from FAF patch 3688, the veterancy system has changed to a mass killed system and the ACUs cost were changed to facilitate thier promotions. But for this mod, the ACUs cost stayed the same :

Code: Select all

BuildCostEnergy = 5000000,
BuildCostMass = 18000,
BuildRate = 10,
BuildTime = 60000,

And they need 200% of their mass worth to gain a veterancy level, making them nearly impossible to promote. I suggest to tone down to 50% of their mass worth (like all non-modded Experimentals) and leaving their cost as they are (BlackOps ACUs are still very powerful so their high costs are still justified for me).

For this suggestion however, I have submitted the ticket.

[Uveso]

Hello CybranLord,

yes i guess its a good idea to make the Phazon a bit weaker.
Mabye we will also adjust the price.

And yes, we should set the buildcost the same then the original ACU's have. Maybe more, but only a bit.

At the moment i am really bussy and we are changing some admin stuff in the background.
I will start to work on this next week.

You could do me a favor and think about some values we can set.

-What should be the exact DPS of the phazon weapon, and why ?
-Same with buildcost.
-Buildcost for the ACU. Should be respect the veterancy system and new mods, where you can build ACU's in special factories. (those mods are actual in developing!)
We can't change (or at least i won't) change the vetrancy system, so we need to fix this with the ACU mass cost value.
-Any other tip/hint/bugfix you have in mind ?
I plan an update for BO-ACU and Unleashed in 2-3 weeks, please report everything you have in mind, so we can fix it for the next patch.

[CybranLord]

Hello Uveso,
for the Phazon Beam, I suggest to reduce the DPS from :

Code: Select all

Aeon Phason Beam :
Damage : 20 (initial), 140 (upgrade 1), 630 (final upgrade)
ROF : 10
Max Range : 35 (initial), 40 (upgrade 1 and final upgrade)
DamageRadius = 1 (initial and upgrade 1), 2 (final upgrade)
-> 6300 DPS when full upgraded

To something like this :

Code: Select all

Aeon Phason Beam :
Damage : 20 (initial), 70 (upgrade 1), 280-350 (final upgrade)
ROF : 10
Max Range : 35 (initial), 40 (upgrade 1 and final upgrade)
DamageRadius = 1 (initial and upgrade 1), 2 (final upgrade)
-> 2800-3500 DPS when full upgraded

It follows the same logic as the Cybran Mazer (multiply the DPS by 3.5 for the first upgrade and then by 4-5 for the last one, I am not sure about the exact DPS but I still want to have the Aeon Upgrade be powerful), it has around the same DPS as the others options and it is still the most powerful one for compensating the lack of a real weapon of the Aeon Combat Engineering Upgrade.

But with that in mind, I think the upgrade must cost at least the same price as the Cybran one as it is still the most powerful (DPS, damage radius and range wise). So from :

Code: Select all

Aeon :
BuildCostEnergy = 525000 -> 900000
BuildCostMass = 4500 -> 6300
BuildTime = 18000 -> 21600

For the veterancy, Ok for reducing its mass cost then to align with the other mods. I have suggested earlier to reduce the mass cost of the ACUs for them to gain a level at around half its mass cost, so 9K-10K mass killed per level, maybe it is a little too much. But I still maintain that a veterancy level for an ACU must be earned and the BlackOps' ACUs can do that easily with the upgrades + Overcharges, so it must not be too low. Actually for non-BlackOps' ACUs it is 4k mass per level if I am correct and I think for BlackOps' ACUs, it must be at minimum 5K mass per level.

Also for the veterancy for the BlackOps mod in general, specifically for the Experimentals Units it provides, they need to destroy 200% of their own worth in mass instead of 50% like the base game Experimentals. Can you take a look why it is like this ?

Thanks a lot for reading me.

[Uveso]

Hello CybranLord,

Phason beam II damage is changed from 140 to 110
Phason beam III damage is changed from 630 to 360 (looks like swapped digits in the frist place ?!?)
BuildCostEnergy = 625000
BuildCostMass = 6300
BuildTime = 21600,

ACU buildcost is now for all 4 ACU's:
BuildCostEnergy = 350000
BuildCostMass = 2500
BuildTime = 18000

There are also some bugfixes for seraphim ACU cloak if controlled by AI,
and also a patch for the AI Omni View.

Only for testing, don't go online with this version, it will desync instantly!
http://faforever.uveso.de/forum/BlackOpsFAF-ACUs-v17.1.zip


Please report if you find any more issues with the ACU mod.