I am finished contributing to FAF.

[biass]

I feel like i spent 6 or so hours writing my suicide note. But this document will explain why I am done sitting here and trying to contribute to this place.
It would be nice if this was actively discussed and was used to actually make change around here. But if I had hopes for that I would not be stopping.

I am sorry to anyone i have disappointed and apologise for the downbeat post, but I hope this note will do it's justice as a rationale. Even for 5 minutes until it is removed for being dissent towards FAF as a whole. Prepare for a long read.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1d-w ... sp=sharing

I won't lie, it hasn't been fun. But I hope out of everything I have done for this place you might have liked at least one part of it.
I'll still be around to talk but outside of that, goodbye FAF.

[Louvegarde]

I see no reason in the world for why this post should be removed. As far as I'm concerned, it can stay in place.

I don't have much to say, but one thing :

Furthermore this conversation included a global moderator as the active target who did not remove or otherwise censor the conversation.

I believe the Slack should be policed just like the Discord or any other platform of conversation FAF relies on, however - we moderators have no rights at all on the slack. Even though it should technically be in our juridiction, only the "Slack owner" (so either sheeo, or just sheeo and voodoo, I'm not sure) can take actions against users - and I'm not even sure them can delete messages.

This means slack sees stuff happening that shouldn't ever happen, and that getting something deleted or someone pushed out is so much effort most of us don't try. This is one of the reasons why such things happen on the slack while, as you pointed out, "anyone holding that kind of behavior litterally anywhere else would be banned".

As far as I'm concerned, Downlord does not beneficiate from any special ban-shield because of his contribution - he seems aware that since it will be harder to take action against him in slack than anywhere else, this is the place he chose to talk the most. Should that have happened in a place we can actually do something, well, something would have been done without any trace of hesitation.

[moonbearonmeth]

[Geosearchef]

I believe the Slack should be policed just like the Discord or any other platform of conversation FAF relies on, however - we moderators have no rights at all on the slack.

I strongly disagree. The job of the moderators is to moderate the commuinity and make sure it stays a friendly and welcoming environment. FAF doesn't rely on the slack for conversation, contributors use the slack for communication. This includes the moderators. You would expect to find only people that are trusted and know how to behave themselves there as you need to contribute something and care about the project to get into it. I think though that the slack is completely overcrowded.

Additionally, if you neglect the community rules on slack you will be banned pretty quickly, if someone pings e.g. sheeo as happened a few months ago you can get banned for insulting people in minutes.

[biass]

The job of the moderators is to moderate the commuinity and make sure it stays a friendly and welcoming environment. FAF doesn't rely on the slack for conversation, contributors use the slack for communication.

So you think you, a "Contributor" is a class above other users on this platform? What do you class as a "Contributor" then? Just a programmer?

[Louvegarde]

The job of the moderators is to moderate the commuinity and make sure it stays a friendly and welcoming environment. FAF doesn't rely on the slack for conversation, contributors use the slack for communication.

Developers are part of the community. Slack is part of the community. It's supposed to be welcoming and friendly, at least as much than the rest.
Bad attitude is as much punishable as anywhere else, and infrigement to FAF rules is too. Slack is not "a special place".

Problem solved anyway, we just got the moderators right on slack and will make sure to enforce the FAF rules here like anywhere else. As biass pointed out, there's no reason such thing is left to happen on Slack.

[Geosearchef]

So you think you, a "Contributor" is a class above other users on this platform? What do you class as a "Contributor" then? Just a programmer?

So you think a moderator is a class above other users on this platform? To me a moderator is just a contributor.

Bad attitude is as much punishable as anywhere else, and infrigement to FAF rules is too.

FAF is a democratic structure. And this is fundamentally undermined by a specific group of non elected people having special rights on slack. You cannot apply rules set by moderators to slack. Who gave you the rights on slack? I will have to talk to that person. I think we don't need moderators moderating on slack. What about giving councillors those permissions? Multiple of them should be online at each time.

And especially I don't accept that a single contributor like a moderator can just write up any rules he or she wishes and apply them to the slack (viewtopic.php?f=12&t=16536) without the consent of other contributors, in that case especially the council whose job is to represent all parts of the FAF community. It cannot be that a single instance like the moderation team, only one part of the FAF community (represented by only ONE councillor) gains power over the communication medium used by all to facilitate the democratic process.

In reality FAF cannot be fully democratic, there has to be someone legally responsible (this is actually not true, but not the center of this debate). But apart from that we have always been trying to achieve that.

We don't need a team to moderate that (and limit free speech on the main decision making communication channel of FAF), it's enough to have 1-2 admins (e.g. sheeo) that you can ping if someone crosses some boundaries which rarely happens.

[biass]

So you think a moderator is a class above other users on this platform? To me a moderator is just a contributor.

No, a moderator is an representative of the community put in place to ensure it's continued perseverance, they are given special ability to ensure this goal will be achieved.
Now, you will answer my question instead of dodging it.

FAF is a democratic structure. And this is fundamentally undermined by a specific group of non elected people having special rights on slack.

The one or two admins - before the moderators were just now given rights - were not elected.

You cannot apply rules set by moderators to slack. Who gave you the rights on slack? I will have to talk to that person. I think we don't need moderators moderating on slack. What about giving councillors those permissions? Multiple of them should be online at each time.

The panic and the fear set in.
So you think the promotion and Maps and Mods councillors should be able to moderate your discussion, or only the councillors you like?

And especially I don't accept that a single contributor like a moderator can just write up any rules he or she wishes and apply them to the slack (viewtopic.php?f=12&t=16536) without the consent of other contributors, in that case especially the council whose job is to represent all parts of the FAF community.

Rackover didn't write these rules, she just posted the thread, these rules are the culmination of the moderation team's effort. That includes the council.

and limit free speech on the main decision making communication channel of FAF

Must suck to have things you say constantly putting you under threat of moderator action. And people come out of slack and tell people to just "not break the rules"

This is disgusting.

If anyone has the ability to view slack. I want you to look at the revolt happening because thanks to this the admins now have admin rights. Do i think the mod team is gonna make it all better? no, i spoke about mods in the post. But i hope that what you read there further reinforces my points about slack and double standards.

[Louvegarde]

And especially I don't accept that a single contributor like a moderator can just write up any rules he or she wishes and apply them to the slack (viewtopic.php?f=12&t=16536) without the consent of other contributors

This ruleset was decided, proofread, and voted among the moderation team. The councilor (Voodoo) had to give his personal approval to it for it to get posted as the ruleset. This process took over a month. It's not "a single person" who wrote the rules "she wishes" to apply it. If that process is unclear, you can ask me or us more details about it instead of going straight to the shitstorm on slack like you just did.

The structure of FAF is made so that each councilor and his team have power on an entire chunk of FAF. The Game councilor has the power to blow up the FAF patch with trojans and viruses. The Promo councilor has the power to shitpost on the announcement channel, 10 times a day, 7 days a week. And the Moderators have the power to delete messages that they don't like even though they don't enforce rules, and one moderator has the power to go rogue and ban every IP from the forums.
Technically. Yet this is not happening.
Because like any other community, it works on trust. Moderators are trusted to make good use of that power, and if one of them doesn't, you can report him/her to other moderators - that's why there are multiple moderators in the first place. Decisions are rarely taken alone.

Given the size of slack, the number of users, and the "heated discussions" that have been happening in the past, it seems obvious this place should not be above the rules of FAF like it had been. We do need a team to moderate it, even though you may not like it.

[Downlord]

The chat and forums are public and therefore need to be moderated.
Slack is private and, therefore, does not need to be moderated.

Also, Slack is a place of work which is the only reason why I choose to talk there, regardless of what I'm being accused of.