How is simspeed lag in 2018?

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How is simspeed lag in 2018?

Postby E8400-CV » 02 Jun 2018, 01:29

I've racked up a lot of games in 2014-2016 before I completely quit in the first half of 2016, see my previous post.

So I'm wondering; how is the simpeed lag today? Is there a fix yet to keep players with the -U CPU's (that cut clockfrequency in half in 10m) out of lobbies? Or a system to keep track of lagging players?

I might want to re-install the game, but not if this is still as bad as two years ago.

My guess would be the AMD FX users and Intel i7-920 users have finally upgraded, but I'm not sure about that either.

And yes, I do mean the 1-hour Setons games. I don't care about your lag-free 5x5.

Any input?
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Re: How is simspeed lag in 2018?

Postby Endranii » 02 Jun 2018, 02:26

Just go and host senton with CPU's below 150 and enjoy the intel K-series FAF experience... nobody is stopping you from it.

Actually no, that would mean no memesletje,turin and many more not playing :( Unacceptable!
Last edited by Endranii on 02 Jun 2018, 15:11, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How is simspeed lag in 2018?

Postby E8400-CV » 02 Jun 2018, 03:12

Stock CPU's are fine too, but the problem is the people with laptops and the -U CPU's. They get through the CPU bench with full turboclock and then lag down due to overheating / power limit soon after. I've suggested in the past to show the CPU, but that was deemed "too much info"...
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Re: How is simspeed lag in 2018?

Postby QuestionMarkNoob » 02 Jun 2018, 03:48

E8400-CV wrote:Stock CPU's are fine too, but the problem is the people with laptops and the -U CPU's. They get through the CPU bench with full turboclock and then lag down due to overheating / power limit soon after. I've suggested in the past to show the CPU, but that was deemed "too much info"...


I have to (kinda) agree with you on that point. I own a laptop (I do not really play on it though) with a very recent U-series CPU, and that one has a CPU score of 160.
Ingame it not even close to that mark. Maybe about 250.

How bad is simspeed lagg? It has gotten far better over the recent year or two. Of course, there are outliers, but again, there always are.

There is also the option to use Kyro's Lobby to just kick out anyone with a CPU over 250 and so on. Ofc that won't fix the problem with some idividuals faking their CPU rating and then joining a game just to go -4 at min 20 with it, but a list should solve this problem easily.

And BTW, there is no real problem with these CPUs you just listed, many people just do not want to overclock them. Even FX chips can be around 240 or lower rated with a medium overclock.

Also: There are mods like "quality of performance" that will reduce CPU load signifficantly. A -2 game will probably be -1.
Though it should be noted, that this mod is NOT RANKED currently. I do not know the reasoning behind that, so I am not going to judge, but making it ranked would surely help a lot of players and make maps like DualGap and Setons more "accessible".
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Re: How is simspeed lag in 2018?

Postby FtXCommando » 02 Jun 2018, 04:03

How can anyone argue that sentons or dual gap are NOT accessible?
Are you upset? Are you happy? Are you a FAF Player? Come to the PC Discord and share your thoughts and build the community!

https://discord.gg/Y2dGU8X
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Re: How is simspeed lag in 2018?

Postby E8400-CV » 02 Jun 2018, 04:15

QuestionMarkNoob wrote:
E8400-CV wrote:Stock CPU's are fine too, but the problem is the people with laptops and the -U CPU's. They get through the CPU bench with full turboclock and then lag down due to overheating / power limit soon after. I've suggested in the past to show the CPU, but that was deemed "too much info"...


I have to (kinda) agree with you on that point. I own a laptop (I do not really play on it though) with a very recent U-series CPU, and that one has a CPU score of 160.
Ingame it not even close to that mark. Maybe about 250.


That's why I wanted it to also list the used CPU.

QuestionMarkNoob wrote:How bad is simspeed lagg? It has gotten far better over the recent year or two. Of course, there are outliers, but again, there always are.


Good to know. So suddenly the influx of -U CPU's has stopped?

QuestionMarkNoob wrote:There is also the option to use Kyro's Lobby to just kick out anyone with a CPU over 250 and so on. Ofc that won't fix the problem with some idividuals faking their CPU rating and then joining a game just to go -4 at min 20 with it, but a list should solve this problem easily.


How would that list thing work? You would have to individually look-up player to get player ID and then check some Excel sheet?

QuestionMarkNoob wrote:And BTW, there is no real problem with these CPUs you just listed, many people just do not want to overclock them. Even FX chips can be around 240 or lower rated with a medium overclock.


The -U thing slowing down is a real problem. You yourself noted your -U is more like 250 than 160. And the higher FX OC's just get throttling later in the game due to temperature or motherboard power-limit; making them on the surface show the same behavior of the -U laptops.

QuestionMarkNoob wrote:Also: There are mods like "quality of performance" that will reduce CPU load signifficantly. A -2 game will probably be -1.
Though it should be noted, that this mod is NOT RANKED currently. I do not know the reasoning behind that, so I am not going to judge, but making it ranked would surely help a lot of players and make maps like DualGap and Setons more "accessible".


I have a rather bad experience with unranked games.
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Re: How is simspeed lag in 2018?

Postby ZLO_RD » 02 Jun 2018, 12:44

I had same question
https://youtu.be/gW-xw_rTWRI

"Tested" 8gen u cpu. 170 cpu score. Drops to -1 around 19:30 on stons

Edit
I own a athlon x3 440 no oc. It is pretty bad with setons or something higher than 4v4.
Checked pentium g4400 at work it is pretty amazing in comparison to my athlon.
G3440 at work tiny bi worse, but almost same. Thought I have to close all backgroud apps, can't always do that at work
Also own g3420 it is ofc same shit, but I have not time to do any tests. Just checked cpu score - around 200.
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Re: How is simspeed lag in 2018?

Postby QuestionMarkNoob » 02 Jun 2018, 13:03

FtXCommando wrote:How can anyone argue that sentons or dual gap are NOT accessible?



When someone has a 350 rated CPU it is clearly not 100% accessible for him, because most hosts (including me) will kick him. I never said it was inaccessible, I only argued that it might become MORE accessible for players with old CPU if that mod is made ranked. I really do not understand your problem here :cry: .

ZLO_RD wrote: I had same question
https://youtu.be/gW-xw_rTWRI

"Tested" 8gen u cpu. 170 cpu score. Drops to -1 around 19:30 on stons


This is the exact same CPU I also use on my laptop. I investigated on it, and it seems to both be limited by the 15w power limit AND thermals. Of course, this depends on the quality of the laptop, but most "thin and light" laptops will slow the game down if they have that CPU.

There also seems no real way to fix this. I undervolted my CPU by about -100mV and I did not see much improvement. I also removed the 15w power limit, and then it was even more limited by the thermals. I also wanted to try to "disable turbo boost" and lock the CPU at ~ 2.5 ghz, but sadly it was locked in the BIOS for my laptop. That option could help you, but I don't think you can access it on most non-gamer laptops :| .

E8400-CV wrote: That's why I wanted it to also list the used CPU.


Not a good idea IMO, you can slow down every game, even with an 8700k if you have bad cooling and multitask.

E8400-CV wrote: Good to know. So suddenly the influx of -U CPU's has stopped?


I cannot say anything about U-CPUs, but from personal experience it has gotten a lot better.

E8400-CV wrote: How would that list thing work? You would have to individually look-up player to get player ID and then check some Excel sheet?


There does not seem to be any other way.

E8400-CV wrote: The -U thing slowing down is a real problem. You yourself noted your -U is more like 250 than 160. And the higher FX OC's just get throttling later in the game due to temperature or motherboard power-limit; making them on the surface show the same behavior of the -U laptops.


That might be true for some FX systems with really cheap coolers/mobos/weak VRMs/little cooling for the MOSFETS, but all in all I would say that FX-systems are okay. Especially because they are soldered, and an insane overclock is not even needed.

E8400-CV wrote: I have a rather bad experience with unranked games.


Well this is why the mod should be ranked (if there are no other problems with it).
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Re: How is simspeed lag in 2018?

Postby ZLO_RD » 02 Jun 2018, 13:26

QuestionMarkNoob wrote:
FtXCommando wrote:How can anyone argue that sentons or dual gap are NOT accessible?

When someone has a 350 rated CPU it is clearly not really accessible for him, because most hosts (including me) will kick him. I never said it was inaccessible, I only argued that it might become MORE accessible for players with old CPU if that mod is made ranked. I really do not understand your problem here :cry: .

Ha ha... :( i am exactly at 350 cpu score. not exactly sure about gap, but high level setons lags more and it is not accesible for me. beyond 30 min 4v4s are not very comfortable
QuestionMarkNoob wrote: I investigated on it, and it seems to both be limited by the 15w power limit AND thermals. Of course, this depends on the quality of the laptop, but most "thin and light" laptops will slow the game down if they have that CPU.
i might have not catched it on video, but laptop did turboboost much higher than his heavy load clock speed that he had while replay was running, that is why it got 170 score but still sim speed drops down pretty fast. So i conclude that it is more of a thermal issue. i have heard that many laptops these days have this "burst" performance when they can boost to max clocks for like 10 seconds but then drop to normal again.
QuestionMarkNoob wrote:There also seems no real way to fix this. I undervolted my CPU by about -100mV and I did not see much improvement. I also removed the 15w power limit, and then it was even more limited by the thermals. I also wanted to try to "disable turbo boost" and lock the CPU at ~ 2.5 ghz, but sadly it was locked in the BIOS for my laptop. That option could help you, but I don't think you can access it on most non-gamer laptops :| .
What you mean by "locked"? no options of any kind or they are there but you can't change them? if second case then you should check that stuff on the internet
i wanted to test with hyperthreading off but option was grayed out. turned out i had to disable hibernation first (it also was called "deep sleep" for no reason) and then i was able to disable hiperthreading...
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Re: How is simspeed lag in 2018?

Postby QuestionMarkNoob » 02 Jun 2018, 13:41

ZLO_RD wrote: i might have not catched it on video, but laptop did turboboost much higher than his heavy load clock speed that he had while replay was running, that is why it got 170 score but still sim speed drops down pretty fast. So i conclude that it is more of a thermal issue. i have heard that many laptops these days have this "burst" performance when they can boost to max clocks for like 10 seconds but then drop to normal again.


True and true. The new generation has double the amount of threads and will therefore consume more power. To still keep the CPU inside the TDP rating (which is calculated with the base clock) the base clocks have been lowered. And that is bad for FAF.

ZLO_RD wrote: What you mean by "locked"? no options of any kind or they are there but you can't change them? if second case then you should check that stuff on the internet
i wanted to test with hyperthreading off but option was grayed out. turned out i had to disable hibernation first (it also was called "deep sleep" for no reason) and then i was able to disable hiperthreading...


There were options, but I could not change them or do anything about them, they are completely inaccessible. But again, since it is not my main rig, I did not try everything. All in all, this will depend on your laptop. Some laptops UEFIs are just terrible and you cannot do much about it :( .

Disabling hyperthreading was a good idea, maybe try undervolting your CPU next, that could possibly allow for better thermals.
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