M&M Councillor and Map Vault Cleanse

[Apofenas]

I think map councilor should be the most productive mapper in FAF. That's right, Master Lee for M&M councilor!

Spoiler: show

And the name of most successfull mapper stays mystery for me as he didn't write it in Gap of rohan description

[JoonasTo]

I thought this was given to speed2 almost two months ago, wasn't it in the last dev call?
Yes it was, starts at 65:25.



As that's been available for over a month, anyone that only starts to complain about it now proves he wasn't/isn't interested in what goes on in the community enough to be viable for this position.

There was a lot more discussion in slack following that call and no one really likes what we have now but the fact is that this is what we currently have, all the better fancy ways to do this are just a dream of the future. Personally I am an advocate of map vault tags.

Yeah, that was how much interest it got on the forum. Four troll replies and one serious one line post from Brutus5000. With a ratio like that it is rather easy to see why devs stick to slack.

Don't get me wrong, slack is shit, the free version that nukes the history is horrible and developer communication to the public is painstakingly bad. That slackarchive.io that Aulex linked seems amazing and solves both the visibility and history issue so unless there's something equally wrong with it we should implement it ASAP.

Just for the record I don't agree to giving any position of power to a person who doesn't carry himself with respect in all avenues of contact with the community. Especially a position such as this. Sadly, our resources in FAF are limited and we don't have the luxury for this so we'll have to choose on other merits and as shown in this thread and linked dev call, speed2 is the most invested in this out of the interested parties so far. So if the other interested parties wish to sway him from his position this late after the information was made public, now would be the time to show something more than a few words.

3. If anyone is unhappy with the amount of information being communicated to the general public, I highly suggest that this person takes the matter into their own hands and become the one who gathers information and communicates it to the public.

Does this mean I can join the slack and simply observe?

Yes, please do. We badly need someone dedicated to this.

[Downlord]

Does this mean I can join the slack and simply observe?

Absolutely. Send me your email and I'll invite you.

The reasons why Slack is invite-only are:
1. That's how Slack works.
2. If we allowed anyone in there, it would become 2nd aeolus and it would affect our productivity in a very negative way.

It's the same reason why most people have their desk in an office and not on the street. Or maybe why offices have doors.

[speed2]

Does this mean I can join the slack and simply observe?

Absolutely. Send me your email and I'll invite you.

The reasons why Slack is invite-only are:
1. That's how Slack works.
2. If we allowed anyone in there, it would become 2nd aeolus and it would affect our productivity in a very negative way.

It's the same reason why most people have their desk in an office and not on the street. Or maybe why offices have doors.

There were complains that it was too hard to get to slack. So a link where you could put your email and recieve invitation was made. How did that end up? With people who did 0 contribution and came just to shittalk and hate on the developers. They managed to get themselves kicked out. Then there were other cases where people abused it to use the slack-aeolus bridge to avoid chat bans. So we had to change it back to invite only (slack adminds and faf moderators and few trusted ppl can invite others to slack atm).

[Farmsletje]

As that's been available for over a month, anyone that only starts to complain about it now proves he wasn't/isn't interested in what goes on in the community enough to be viable for this position.

Are you fucking kidding me? So anyone that doesn't want to spend 2 hours for the offchance that there might be a relevant topic for him (M&M councillor) isn't interested enough in the community? That's just plainly stupid.

[speed2]

As that's been available for over a month, anyone that only starts to complain about it now proves he wasn't/isn't interested in what goes on in the community enough to be viable for this position.

Are you fucking kidding me? So anyone that doesn't want to spend 2 hours for the offchance that there might be a relevant topic for him (M&M councillor) isn't interested enough in the community? That's just plainly stupid.

What he meants was that the dev call is public and anyone who is really intrested into the stuff, can get either to the call, or watch it later to find out what's going on. The call was also summed up by PhilipJFry (and posted on the whats new page I think), so you could read in few points what was discussed and then watch just the relevant part for example.

EDIT: https://www.faforever.com/2017/11/faf-d ... 2-01102017

[JoonasTo]

As that's been available for over a month, anyone that only starts to complain about it now proves he wasn't/isn't interested in what goes on in the community enough to be viable for this position.

Are you fucking kidding me? So anyone that doesn't want to spend 2 hours for the offchance that there might be a relevant topic for him (M&M councillor) isn't interested enough in the community? That's just plainly stupid.

Not sure if this is a serious post or not but in case it is, you can take one glance at the video and you should notice there is an agenda that can be seen. From this one can quickly glance if there is anything that might interest them personally, there is no need to watch the whole video from start to finish just to know what it contains. For example, in this case there is "Map&Mod Vault Cleanse", if one were to be interested in moderation/administration of the map/mod vault or mapping in general, one would assume this part would interest them in some way.

So yes, if they don't want to spend some time(took me around a minute to timestamp the start of the related part, then add to that the lenght of the discussion) to acquire that information, they are not suitable to being the M&M councillor who is expected to spend tens of hours pruning said vaults in their position.

And as speed2 noted before me, there is usually a compilation post made later on, though it usually takes some time and is a bit delayed. Still they had more than a month after that compilation post was made to go back and check the discussion about this issue and propose a solution so that really isn't an excuse here.

[FtXCommando]

First I'd like to point out the hilarious absurdism we got going on here with the """FAF-TROLLS""" that constantly deal with accusations of being extremely elitist apparently not being elitist enough for the slack elitist so they need to create a private channel in order to further concentrate their elitism. If people don't want to be branded as elitist, probably don't go around saying: AS SOON AS PEOPLE GET TO SEE MY CONVERSATIONS IM NOT GONNA HAVE THEM ANYMORE

Now in my honest opinion, speed2 and biass are the only people with a resume right now that can be considered for the position. If you took one of them out, it would be an easy decision on who to vote for because moon hasn't really done much with mods or maps and I don't think Gently has too much experience with mods (not aeolus kind kappa).

I don't really think the adequate way to look at the vote is through a quantity-of-contribution dick-measuring contest because that has already served its' purpose. I would personally rather use contributions as a tool to whittle down an election's choices into a group of people that have proved that they know what they are doing and that they would be able to handle the responsibilities of their position.

So what do you look at next? Well, I think the Council of Setons has a general monolithic view and that while this does have the advantage of quicker decisions being made, it doesn't really provide all the views within a community a fair stage in discussions. There are about 5 players on the council that are in [e] clan, and while some might not see that as a big deal I do. Clans always attract people of similar mindset or similar personality. Doesn't make much sense to associate yourself with people that you don't really see yourself as. I'd rather someone that is more alien to the type of person that is on the Council of Setons be given a chance to show what he can do rather than continue the trend and create yet another S[e]tons position.

Also as a note, I can totally understand the desire to use Slack. It makes sense to want to keep discussions out of aeolus and the forums simply due to their clunky/meme nature. I still do think transparency is somewhat of an issue on FAF and would appreciate there being some way to look at Slack content even if you aren't seen as a contributor by the people there.

[Downlord]

I'm in [e], too. Why? Because those were the people I got into contact with while contributing to FAF.

So yes, [e] did attract people of similar mindset. The mindset of investing time into FAF rather than just complaining.

[Farmsletje]

Yes everybody not agreeing with you is a complainer.

@Joonasto i kinda missed that, although i still think it isn't a good argument. In the news tab it doesn't say anything about a new councillor, only about the cleansing of maps, and even though