M&M Councillor and Map Vault Cleanse

[biass]

Almost everyone is going to have an issue with how another user behaves - this is an internationally used client with people from either side of every moral dilemma.

If you're unable to put that aside and work with other people - what i have done, do, and will continue to do in the future; then you're in big trouble in more then just FAF

[speed2]

You know the election just got real whe you get attacked based on biassed assumptions.

It pains me to see that this position wasn’t even mentioned to the people outside of a very small slack group, and even moreso when “noone signed up” was used as an excuse to pass around positions without the mere mention. It’s nice to see that speed2 actually mentioned it to his detriment (as people are now contesting him) but a prevention is always better than a cure. Council positions are at their core conduits between the regular user and the hidden, often shady backend, and thus these positions being treated so poorly is a harm to the regular user and to faf as a whole.

If we skip this faf developers illiminati, hiding everything from the normal users...

How can you say it "wasn’t even mentioned to the people outside of a very small slack group". The idea for this position existed for a long time, but it wasnt filled. The countil did not do any steps to fill the position in last few days. It was me who ressurected it by my application. And what I did when I applied? I posted it here on the forums, so people knows about it.

Also I'd like to know where you would prefer the developers to comunicate with each other if not on the slack?

I think we we need to get this area sorted quickly too, because of my fears of misuse of the new tools. To wipe away content that people may or may not have spent hours and hours of time in without a notice or without an attempt to fix them. And fast, because my fears are already being realised.

If you didn’t notice, that Flooded Niflheim was deleted from the vault very recently for having double the reclaim on one half then the other, if you don’t map, thats one mistype of a shortcut. For that mistype, the map was removed, and the only mention of it happening was literally a single word mentioned in a forum post. (unless you’re checking for the map, that is) The mapper was not probably informed of their map being removed, and probably don’t know that their map even had an issue yet.

This part can be debunked just by saying: I did contact the author and explained why the map was removed and what to do about it.

[biass]

It's pretty easy to assume you just "got the role" when the only visible information was a 4 or so lines worth of discord chat. I said i appreciated you doing it, because you could have just hidden it, but don't try and brag to me about doing what i take as the "right thing" to do. It would have been almost a perfect scenario if a councillor or someone responsible started up an application thread and made yours the first entry.

I'm fine with people communicating with slack, im not fine with it being the gate to literally any form of communication worthwhile and anyone not in the server essentially outcasted. I'm also not fine with it being used as a way for people to hide away from people what they would be too scared to say in public, like children, basically. When i first joined the #maps slack channel (on the old slack) a quick scroll up found me a tirade of insults to me and my person, i remember my first posts being an ask to cut the crap and i even remember you speed adding in some word about behaviour as well, i shouldn't have to say that the crap wasn't cut.

About bread: I don't think an "i did" without evidence is really going to cut it here, and if the evidence is brought up, i still don't think it is an adequate use of communication and of the tools themself, Lets be honest here; it probably took less time for me to fix the map then it took you to delete it, at least give out a warning or notice on a board so someone less observant has the chance?

[speed2]

Its pretty easy to assume, but wrong at the same time. Especially even after Sheeo posted here /viewtopic. ... 10#p158221
In those 4 or so lines on Discord I said I'm not councillor yet.

I'm fine with people communicating with slack, im not fine with it being the gate to literally any form of communication worthwhile and anyone not in the server essentially outcasted. I'm also not fine with it being used as a way for people to hide away from people what they would be too scared to say in public, like children, basically. When i first joined the #maps slack channel (on the old slack) a quick scroll up found me a tirade of insults to me and my person, i remember my first posts being an ask to cut the crap and i even remember you speed adding in some word about behaviour as well, i shouldn't have to say that the crap wasn't cut.

It it would be possible to have meaningful conversation elsewhere we would probably not be on slack. But aeolus, not possible. (overall IRC is just not sufficient at all for such things). Forums? No, we need chat (+ how many posts on the forum it takes to get offtopic? not that many)

We're not hiding anything on the slack.

Using #maps channel is a bad example if you ask me. When I was inviting you to that channel, some pepole in that channel were against it. Why? Well your reputation exceeded you, and your reputation was probably not so good, if ppl thought you can't take the mapping seriously and you will just continue with your aeolus attitude in a channel for mapping discussion. But I invided you anyway and told others in that channel that you are there for mapping and not for any kind of trolling.

About bread: I don't think an "i did" without evidence is really going to cut it here, and if the evidence is brought up, i still don't think it is an adequate use of communication and of the tools themself, Lets be honest here; it probably took less time for me to fix the map then it took you to delete it, at least give out a warning or notice on a board so someone less observant has the chance?

First I dont feel any need to bring any evidence to you. Second, It's not deleted, just hidden, so more ppl won't see it in the vault to download it.

You talk about communication, but your action was to take his map, fix it and upload it into the vault with description "Reuploaded with fixed reclaim, by toast"
So basically stealing his map without giving any credits and making fun of him.
I don't see that as a good solution, while my solution is to give him a chance to fix, tell him what's wrong and how to fix it.

Spoiler: show

But at the end we're arguing about somone who takes other people's maps and adds water on them.

[Ze Dogfather]

My impression of these petty insults back and forth is not really shining on anyone's back pocket here, and continuing to do so would only earn you a little less compassion and respect in the eyes of your peers. Maybe keep this discussion between you two, since really the only thing apparent is that there is beef here, and that doesn't contribute anything to the topic.

[JaggedAppliance]

My impression of these petty insults back and forth is not really shining on anyone's back pocket here, and continuing to do so would only earn you a little less compassion and respect in the eyes of your peers. Maybe keep this discussion between you two, since really the only thing apparent is that there is beef here, and that doesn't contribute anything to the topic.

The insults are coming from one direction from my reading of this. Speed2 explaining how he dealt with one of the first cases of hiding a map in the vault is definitely useful, as is responding to the accusations, complaints and concerns of biass. Backseat moderation is not contributing anything.

[Downlord]

1. If anyone wants to actually contribute to FAF, he should join Slack.
2. We don't use Slack to hide conversations from the general public, we use it because it's pretty much the most powerful and efficient tool for teams working together.
3. If anyone is unhappy with the amount of information being communicated to the general public, I highly suggest that this person takes the matter into their own hands and become the one who gathers information and communicates it to the public.
4. Speed2 knew about the position and the right time to apply for it because unlike others, he actively participates. He also actively applied.
5. We have no shortage of people who complain and think they know better. What we have is a shortage of people who actually do something, proactively.
6. I do agree that we should have official and scheduled elections. But obviously, we don't have them yet. Now we either all complain that we don't have them, or someone steps up and makes sure they get introduced (free advice: contact the administrative councilor about it).

Talk is cheap.

My two cents.

P.S.: I wonder if there is a pattern to the words I highlighted.

[Ze Dogfather]

So allowing this kind of bickering to continue and waste other's time about a topic that should be taken seriously? I apologize if I don't share your remarkable apathy, but I don't think anyone is interested in a pointless battle that stems in both candidates competing with insults at one another, and I would suggest approaching this with as much impartial authority coming from your position.

[biass]

It's nice that you don't support bickering and things you deem "offtopic" until it supports your opinion, jagged.

I complied with Dog's request, we both know this could go on for hours without end, but nothing will happen.

You'll probably be councillor without even so much as a glance at other applications speed, the quo maintains itself;
I would even say "good luck" but we know you're not at any risk. So enjoy.

[moonbearonmeth]

3. If anyone is unhappy with the amount of information being communicated to the general public, I highly suggest that this person takes the matter into their own hands and become the one who gathers information and communicates it to the public.

Does this mean I can join the slack and simply observe?