Nomads are back!

[Zeldafanboy]

This thread is the first time I've actually seen people not wanting any sort of Nomad integration at all, even after the mod is potentially "finished".

Personally, I'd love to see them be integrated, especially after the aesthetic rehaul they'll be undergoing. It looks really professional, and that's the most important thing besides balance (which can be gradually and incrementally changed as the metagame develops)-- does this mod feel like a buggy, weird mod, or does it feel like an actual unofficial expansion?

[BenDover]

Because this mod doesn't change the gameplay of people who don't choose the nomads.

And actually, there is no popular mod on FAF, I have never seen a Nomads or BO game which wasn't full of newbies. You all say it's not SCFA anymore but it is. You can say that for Total Mayhem or some other unbalanced unit pack but Blackops, BrewLAN and Nomads are more balanced than the original SCFA given by GPG. Thanks to all the FAF patches we have a quite balanced game but don't use "the developpers" as a graal. The only difference between GPG developpers and modders is that one is paid and not the other.

So start by joining Nomads games before classifying it as unbalanced.

What I suggest is to add it in the basegame, then add an option for the host to enable them or not, both cases being ranked.

I'm not saying it's imbalanced, ugly or lacking. I'm saying it's a mod and a pretty big one at that and it's right where it belongs, on the left side panel among other mods. There is absolutely nothing preventing you from playing nomads on your own server and that IMO is enough. Besides saying it doesn't change the gameplay for people who don't choose nomads is ridiculous, are people who do choose them put in an alternate reality when the game starts then?

I think this comes down to different visons for faf. Do we want to keep the game as it is now with minor but welcome improvements. Or do we want to add more content to the game.

I can see the appeal for both, but I lean more to gradually adding more content to the game. Only if this goes through a careful proces though.

I remember back in the day when Chris Taylor talked about adding three expansion packs to the game. We got Forged Alliance, the other two were scrapped.
The Nomads or other added content would feel for me as an expansion pack we never got.

Again, if you want to play your 'expansion pack' why don't you do so and leave the rest of us be? There are plenty of mods being played all the time (phantom, blackops, survivals, other smaller ones from the vault etc.) why shove this one down our throats?

[FtXCommando]

"As long as a mod doesn’t change the game to such an extent that trueskill cannot predict the outcome of a game reasonably well it can be ranked."

If people are going to argue that putting in an entirely new faction is not changing the outcome of trueskill, then why aren't we ranking the simple mods that only add units to existing factions? Surely if we just balance blackops a little bit it can be put into the game, hell, might as well as put in every unit mod really.

I'd love to hear what mods aren't allowed to be ranked if a mod that adds an entirely new faction doesn't change trueskill predictions.

I don't care how nice the mod looks or how awesome it would be to innovate the game, I want to see someone argue that this mod does not change trueskill evaluation and I want them to give some examples of mods that would affect trueskill.

Had to have a 35 page discussion about adding a single T3 maa unit and now adding a whole new faction is ok. Jesus.

[CSI]

Because this mod doesn't change the gameplay of people who don't choose the nomads.

Playing against them isn't a gameplay change yea

Do you play really differently when you are against Cybran or UEF ? I don't think so. You wil still rush ASF when playing air, still build the same navy, the same tanks/bots when playing land... Give me an example of something you only do or don't do against a specific faction then.

+ I didn't say that Blackops doesn't change the gameplay, it does quite a lot but in a good way. But playing against Nomads is not very different to play against another faction.

Because this mod doesn't change the gameplay of people who don't choose the nomads.

And actually, there is no popular mod on FAF, I have never seen a Nomads or BO game which wasn't full of newbies. You all say it's not SCFA anymore but it is. You can say that for Total Mayhem or some other unbalanced unit pack but Blackops, BrewLAN and Nomads are more balanced than the original SCFA given by GPG. Thanks to all the FAF patches we have a quite balanced game but don't use "the developpers" as a graal. The only difference between GPG developpers and modders is that one is paid and not the other.

So start by joining Nomads games before classifying it as unbalanced.

What I suggest is to add it in the basegame, then add an option for the host to enable them or not, both cases being ranked.

I'm not saying it's imbalanced, ugly or lacking. I'm saying it's a mod and a pretty big one at that and it's right where it belongs, on the left side panel among other mods. There is absolutely nothing preventing you from playing nomads on your own server and that IMO is enough. Besides saying it doesn't change the gameplay for people who don't choose nomads is ridiculous, are people who do choose them put in an alternate reality when the game starts then?

As I said before, nobody join nomads games, so you can't say that nothing prevents me to play on my own server. Sometimes i host on Seton with nomads for 20 minutes, and no more than 1 or 2 will come, then I cancel and host a Seton without nomads and it takes less than 15 minutes to start... The problem is that people se the word "mod" and think it's some crazy shit, and when you ask them why they don't wanna play they say it's unbalanced but they haven't tested it once...

[CSI]

"As long as a mod doesn’t change the game to such an extent that trueskill cannot predict the outcome of a game reasonably well it can be ranked."

If people are going to argue that putting in an entirely new faction is not changing the outcome of trueskill, then why aren't we ranking the simple mods that only add units to existing factions? Surely if we just balance blackops a little bit it can be put into the game, hell, might as well as put in every unit mod really.

I'd love to hear what mods aren't allowed to be ranked if a mod that adds an entirely new faction doesn't change trueskill predictions.

I don't care how nice the mod looks or how awesome it would be to innovate the game, I want to see someone argue that this mod does not change trueskill evaluation and I want them to give some examples of mods that would affect trueskill.

Had to have a 35 page discussion about adding a single T3 maa unit and now adding a whole new faction is ok. Jesus.

Actually, adding a faction is less game changing than adding units in the existing factions. If Supreme cmmander had the success of Starcraft be sure that the devs would have added other factions.. Take the example of AOE II HD, thy added a shitton of civilisations and nobody complains about it. It's not a big deal as long as it follows the line of the other factions.

[BenDover]

As I said before, nobody join nomads games, so you can't say that nothing prevents me to play on my own server. Sometimes i host on Seton with nomads for 20 minutes, and no more than 1 or 2 will come, then I cancel and host a Seton without nomads and it takes less than 15 minutes to start... The problem is that people se the word "mod" and think it's some crazy shit, and when you ask them why they don't wanna play they say it's unbalanced but they haven't tested it once...

Well maybe not enough people like the mod that's all the more reason not to include it in the base game. You can't force people to use something they don't like, mods are optional and you haven't given 1 good argument to change that, 'nobody joins nomads games' is an argument AGAINST merging them into base game, not in favour.

Also look at phantom mod, games are starting all the time so don't tell me mods are scaring people away. Not to mention 90% of noob only games have a mods list 5 feet long and it takes an hour to download all that crap, yet they are being played constantly. I call your argument invalid.

[FtXCommando]

Because this mod doesn't change the gameplay of people who don't choose the nomads.

Playing against them isn't a gameplay change yea

Do you play really differently when you are against Cybran or UEF ? I don't think so. You wil still rush ASF when playing air, still build the same navy, the same tanks/bots when playing land... Give me an example of something you only do or don't do against a specific faction then.

+ I didn't say that Blackops doesn't change the gameplay, it does quite a lot but in a good way. But playing against Nomads is not very different to play against another faction.

Because this mod doesn't change the gameplay of people who don't choose the nomads.

And actually, there is no popular mod on FAF, I have never seen a Nomads or BO game which wasn't full of newbies. You all say it's not SCFA anymore but it is. You can say that for Total Mayhem or some other unbalanced unit pack but Blackops, BrewLAN and Nomads are more balanced than the original SCFA given by GPG. Thanks to all the FAF patches we have a quite balanced game but don't use "the developpers" as a graal. The only difference between GPG developpers and modders is that one is paid and not the other.

So start by joining Nomads games before classifying it as unbalanced.

What I suggest is to add it in the basegame, then add an option for the host to enable them or not, both cases being ranked.

I'm not saying it's imbalanced, ugly or lacking. I'm saying it's a mod and a pretty big one at that and it's right where it belongs, on the left side panel among other mods. There is absolutely nothing preventing you from playing nomads on your own server and that IMO is enough. Besides saying it doesn't change the gameplay for people who don't choose nomads is ridiculous, are people who do choose them put in an alternate reality when the game starts then?

As I said before, nobody join nomads games, so you can't say that nothing prevents me to play on my own server. Sometimes i host on Seton with nomads for 20 minutes, and no more than 1 or 2 will come, then I cancel and host a Seton without nomads and it takes less than 15 minutes to start... The problem is that people se the word "mod" and think it's some crazy shit, and when you ask them why they don't wanna play they say it's unbalanced but they haven't tested it once...

If you don't play differently when you play against different factions then I don't think you should be determining whether something should be ranked. Of course someone plays differently against a different faction.

Example: you play against aeon as cybran, you rush t2 to get hoplites to beat aurora. you play against UEF as cybran, you don't put such an extreme emphasis on t2 phase.

Your reasons for wanting the mod integrated are irrelevant according to the conditions for rating.

[CSI]

Phantom is not a mod but a gamemode, and it has its own maps.

And I said to add an option to enable or not the nomads in the lobby, so it won't force anybody to use it. That will change that people who don't know or don't care will join nomads games, unlike now.

And the main reason people don't play it is because it is a mod, that sounds like a bad word to them. If Seraphims were a mod nobody would play them as well. But they are in the basegae, is it a problem ? Just a few games and people will learn how to deal with them.

[BenDover]

Phantom is not a mod but a gamemode, and it has its own maps.

And I said to add an option to enable or not the nomads in the lobby, so it won't force anybody to use it. That will change that people who don't know or don't care will join nomads games, unlike now.

And the main reason people don't play it is because it is a mod, that sounds like a bad word to them. If Seraphims were a mod nobody would play them as well. But they are in the basegae, is it a problem ? Just a few games and people will learn how to deal with them.

So your plan is to hide the mod in hopes of people not noticing what they're about to play. Are you being serious right now? Go host your nomands on gap, the world map or some other noob map you'll see you'll get plenty of players.

[CSI]

Phantom is not a mod but a gamemode, and it has its own maps.

And I said to add an option to enable or not the nomads in the lobby, so it won't force anybody to use it. That will change that people who don't know or don't care will join nomads games, unlike now.

And the main reason people don't play it is because it is a mod, that sounds like a bad word to them. If Seraphims were a mod nobody would play them as well. But they are in the basegae, is it a problem ? Just a few games and people will learn how to deal with them.

So your plan is to hide the mod in hopes of people not noticing what they're about to play. Are you being serious right now? Go host your nomands on gap, the world map or some other noob map you'll see you'll get plenty of players.

The thing you don't understand is that Nomads is not a "noob" mod like Total Mayhem or Xtrem Wars, I don't want to play with noobs on noobs maps. I want to play regular Setons with 5 factions...