AI Co-Op TeamPlay

Talk about general things concerning Forged Alliance Forever.

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Re: AI Co-Op TeamPlay

Postby AwarE » 19 Oct 2012, 05:10

There are a number of reasons why most players participate in games on Thermopyle maps:

- The single choke point makes for a simple game plan.
- The single choke point and long canyon telegraphs an attack so that players, not only know where the raid will be, but also the direction it will come from.
- Players relative skillz are nutrailized by build restrictions... rules are like No air, hills, nuke, LRC, tele and sat. Of course these restrictions reduce the attack options to only face to face groundwar. Also players soon realise they don't need the remember to build defense against those options that can't be deployed. Therefore no need for nuke defense, air defense, early shields and point defense on the rear of base and so on. This allows new players to mix it with Pros, having a new player on the team does not mean certain defeat
- Players like to test 'End Game' scenarios with T3 defense and T4 attack.
- Sometimes people just want to chill on a cool map. Thermo is always fun if the host is cruisy and players follow the rules.
- Players could use this map to practice team commander skillz in the canyon, establishing a stealthed front line. (Note: ensure 'AIx Omni' is OFF for this...it should normally be on for most TeamPlayAI games.)
- There are many players that say they hate Thermo style maps... but they play because it is the only small, fast running game available to join. They hate a slow-running Setons even more.

So may I present
"Thermopylae v4 TeamPlayAI"
Image

Size - 10x10 ... basicly same landform as 'Battle of Thermopylae v4'... I have only smoothed the canyon a little, made it difficult to do anything on top of the hills and added restrictions. Also added a full set of FA AI markers.

Players - One to four Humans in North start positions 1-4 verse two teamed Aeon Sorian Turtle AIx in South start positions 7&8.... there are two positions [5&6] that should remain empty for best AI performance. You could add a Sorian Rush AI to the most forward of the AI start positions[5]...this will provide good sport early in the canyon but in the long run will weaken the AIx build and cause the game to slowdown. I do not recommend that you add a third AI.

Restrictions - Air, Nukes, LRC, Sat, Tele and Hills. ( LRC includes T4 long range cannons.) So rather than trust that all players will obey the rules ...the map ensures compliance. Our game host will not need to set restrictions or even state rules ...people will soon learn.

This map reminds me of a bowling ally with the AIx experimentals as 'pins' and Human experimentals as 'bowling balls'.
Use AIx multipliers to adjust game difficulty rather than adding more than two AI. Noobies will achieve 'Allied Victory' here with both AIx multipliers set between 1.0 and 1.3 - Mid level players 1.4 and 1.5 - Pros 1.6 and above.
A build-time radius has been set for those that want to give the AIx build an uninterupted 5mins to ensure it can defend itself from a four player rush.

This map can also be played 1v1 or 2v2 with all human players. The resources are balanced although not symmetrical. I think the South has stronger start positions than the North's original map start positions.

Note: Using mods like Black-Ops will break the map's restrictions because I have not included any new unit IDs.

Have fun
roj
Last edited by AwarE on 19 Oct 2012, 22:06, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: AI Co-Op TeamPlay

Postby AwarE » 19 Oct 2012, 05:15

Here we have another Thermo style map made by Master_Lee. I like his idea of opening up the battle more. I have modified this map to provide a very different experience than a normal Thermo game.

Voodoo Doppel TeamPlayAI
Image

Size - 15x15 ...this is a cutdown 20x20

Players - 1- 4 Humans in North verse 2 teamed Aeon Sorian Turtle AIx in South.... there are two center positions in South that should remain empty to allow the AI to expand.

Restrictions - No restrictions.

'Voodoo Doppel TeamPlayAI' is based on 'Voodoo Doppel Thermo v1'[author: Master Lee] and has had major changes to landform. The map origianly had only one way into each base area and three choke points, it now has at least five, some say ten chokes . The added pathways allow an attack on bases from three directions.

If Civilians are allowed as 'nuteral'... you will be gifted on startup with a T1 engineer of each faction. (As you can see on map)

Noobies will achieve 'Allied Victory' here with both AIx multipliers set between 1.0 and 1.2 - Mid 1.3 and 1.4 - Pros 1.5+.

This map can also be played 2v2 with all human players. The resources are balanced although not simmetrical.

Have fun.
roj
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Re: AI Co-Op TeamPlay

Postby AwarE » 29 Oct 2012, 01:09

Agenda21 TeamPlayAI

Image

You are a retired veteran that used your end of service payout benefit to purchase a 100 acre riverside property. After owning this land for 20 years you are faced with the decision to stand and fight or be separated from your family to live in a slave's quarters.

The decision by the New World Order that you are guilty of "unsustainable development" for the 'practice of grazing cattle' on your private property, has resulted in compulsory acquisition of your land that will be rezoned as "Wildland for Biodiversity". You have been allotted space in a 14 story high apartment block complex situated in a smart growth zone.
You have no legal rights to appeal this mandatory ruling, and have been given only 7 days to move before military action will be taken to enforce Supreme Environmental Law under Agenda21.


Your neighbor, another vet, has contacted you to ask...

"Will you join forces to make a stand against this unjust Agenda21?"


Two Humans patriots dig-in on their northern mountain wilderness properties to defend against two teamed Sorian Turtle AI that have been sent by the NWO as the military enforcement team.
Please be AwarE that this force is comprised of drones and robotic fighters that show NO mercy and take NO prisoners!

Good Luck Commander
roj
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Re: AI Co-Op TeamPlay

Postby AwarE » 09 Nov 2012, 05:08

Harbours TeamPlayAI
Image


Size : 10x20
Players : 2 Humans verse up to 3 AI
Setup: This depends on players ability...
Complete idiots and dogs ... should play the map upside down
New players ... should start in North and verse two teamed Aeon Sorian Water AI in start positions 5&6. (non-AIx)
Mid level players ... should start North and verse two teamed Aeon Sorian Water AIx in start positions 5&6. AIx multipliers at 1.0-1.2
1000+ players ... should start North and verse two teamed Aeon Sorian Water AIx in start positions 5&6. Also add an Aeon AI Tech in start position 3. AIx multipliers at 1.2-1.4
Pros and gods... should start North and verse two teamed Aeon Sorian Water AIx in start positions 5&6. Also add an Aeon AI Tech in start position 3. AIx multipliers at 1.4+

Harbours map was originally made by ........???? <--- plz let me know.
It is a beautiful map that did not include FA AI markers and was a turtler's dream as it had only one side area that was exposed to naval attack. Also most of the mass on the map was in a tight group behind the main bases.

I have made many landform changes to the South to create an AI stronghold. At the same time I have opened up new pathways to all bases and increased the available mass throughout the ocean and isles, so that the huge safe deposits behind the North bases are not as significant as they were in the gameplay.
I wanted this to be a classic Naval Battle and the AI needs lots of mass to compete with humans on the water.

Thanks to CHN_A368 (2000+ player) for sharing his naval skill and knowledge when testing this map with me. You showed what I needed to do to give the AIs a better defense and also what i needed to restrict where the AI had no effective counter.

Restrictions: All Nuke shooting units, Experimental LongRangeCannons, Experimental Air, UEF Sat, Aeon Para.

Good luck Commanders
roj
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Re: AI Co-Op TeamPlay

Postby Scouty » 09 Nov 2012, 13:02

This map is good fun 2v2, I hope it's also fun against bots. Thanks for converting it Aware. :D
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Re: AI Co-Op TeamPlay

Postby AwarE » 10 Nov 2012, 11:44

Thanks Scouty for the game we played on the completed Harbours TeamPlayAI map. You play it very well and it was good fun with multipliers @1.2 against two Sorian Water AIx. I would like to try it again with a Tech AI on the right-side mid isle and with AIx multipliers @1.4
roj
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Re: AI Co-Op TeamPlay

Postby Adraius » 11 Nov 2012, 06:05

Hey AwarE, I've been gone from FAF a few months, but I wanted to share my most-satisfying matches I've played on your maps. All happened on what is by far my favorite map of yours, although I think I have somewhat unusual taste among vs. AI players. :mrgreen:

Sometimes we forgot to set the AI to Aeon, sometimes we tried Rush AIs (they handle the map better), etc., but all three games were intense fun as I scrambled to adapt. This map taught me how to make the most of my units and my ACU... although the terrain tended to play havoc with my strategy. :lol: I think there's a lot of potential for more maps like this. :mrgreen:

I'm unsure of the order I played these in, though I believe the one where the enemy ACU strolls into my base was the first. xD
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Re: AI Co-Op TeamPlay

Postby AwarE » 12 Nov 2012, 11:48

Hey Adraius, I watched each replay twice... lol.. certainly looked like fun games with plenty of action.
I assume you were running the AIx multipliers at 1.4, and that should be high enough for the AIs to be competitive. I thought it was very sportsman like of the AIx to give you a 'GG' hehe... you deserved it.

Please allow me to make some suggestion for future TeamPlayAI games...

You can do whatever you like with my maps... I really don't care if people play my maps backwards to suit their ability... its just that I try to provide the best AI battle experience so players in-game feel the AI is a force that challenges them at whatever their skillz level. You are aggressive and play more like a 2000+ so you will need at least 1.4 on the multipliers, but then you should realize that you only won one of those games under TeamPlayAI's only rule.

I do always recommend Aeon faction for TeamPlayAI although Seraphim are just as good and on some maps are better. Cybran AI is generally a poor performer on a small map with no water. I have not tried UEF AI on desert arena.
From what I saw in your replays I would suggest you play two Aeon Sorian AIx Turtles in the North-mid and West-mid start positions, plus two Aeon Sorian AIx Rush in the North-East and South-West. Please leave the North-West corner position vacant as this is vital to the marker layout.

I have made some 4player verse the AI maps but desert arena is not one of them. 3 Humans max.

The major thing I want to stress with setup is that 'Annihilation' should be set as the game mode for true TeamPlayAI. When an AI commy blows all his stuff should continue to build and still be a force to contend with. An AI commy death is not a big deal, on the other hand a human commy death is a game ender. The share on death that you had selected was correct.

I am trying to cater for all skill levels... Less aggressive players that tested desert arena found that 4 non-AIx Sorian AI(2Turtle+2Rush) was too strong for them. I see a big improvement in all human players the 2nd time they play a map and generally 1000+ players will cream the AI once they have seen what it does.

I am raving a bit here... I do appreciate your input from those replays... I wish I had seen them before I published the map... I could have improved AI defense.

Anyway we will play together soon
Thanks
roj
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Re: AI Co-Op TeamPlay

Postby Adraius » 15 Nov 2012, 03:56

I just beat Desert Arena with the settings you recommended after a few tries. However, the winning attempt seemed unusually easy compared to the previous tries, as if the AI was malfunctioning.

Or perhaps we just got lucky and kicked its butt. I've attached the replay (and another attempt for reference). What do you think?

P.S. For the safety of viewers, please try to avoid face-desking when I built all my PDs in a trench. -.-
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Easy... perhaps too easy?
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Cursed by the landscape. =(
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Re: AI Co-Op TeamPlay

Postby AwarE » 15 Nov 2012, 07:37

The AIx can sometimes play poorly because it gets an engineer stuck trying to leave a plant. I don't think that was the reason for the big difference between the two games.

In the game you say you easily won:
1. Many players would find what you did there difficult ...not easy lol
2. Luck was on your side ...although I believe you make your own luck.
3. The middle player johnj was very strong compared to the mid player in the 1st game. Also Pucu played better in the 2nd game.
4. After a few games on a TeamPlayAI map you learn the AI tactics and therefor know the AI weaknesses, also you learn the sequence of AI attack. T1 land, T1 bombers, Commy attack from Rush AI, T2 land, T3 strat bomber, ect...knowing what comes next helps.
5. Learning the landform is also a big factor. It is at first very hard to see the slight height changes across that map.
6. I think you had the multipliers@1.4 which is high enough for most people to enjoy a good fight. You could set the multipliers@2.0 but I don't think it will make that much difference. I may be wrong as I have not tried it that high.
7. Only other way to improve AIx performance would be to use just 2 AIx Sorian Turtles and set a buildtime to allow AI time to expand. Say 5mins.
8. Most small maps (5x5 and 10x10) can be easily beaten by your 'Charge of the Light Brigade' tactic. That is why most of my maps are 10x20 to give better separation and make it harder to rush the AI before it gets properly set.

Thanks for the replays they are an excellent learning tool to improve future AI.
roj
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