Build 47 balance changelog

Balance discussions for The Nomads.

Moderators: Softly, pip, JJ173, Brute51, CookieNoob, Moritz

Build 47 balance changelog

Postby pip » 30 Mar 2014, 20:22

Balance highlights:
Air: t1 gunship is nerfed (was too strong after the weapon fix), t1 bomber buffed (his flight stats are better than the others, allowing more frequent passes and shots) ; same for t2 bomber which was strongly buffed (it is faster and will drop more often than other factions)
Land : t1 land adjustments are minor, but should make Nomads tanks better against auroras and not so vulnerable to UEF bomber ; t2 land = significant buffs.

Nomads b47 balance changelog:
Air:
T1 gunship: 135 mass (from 160) ; 4500 energy (from 4000) ; 900 buildtime (from 800) ; 350 HP (from 400) and 35 DPS (from 40).

T1 bomber :
combat and regular turn speed modifier = 0.75 (from 0.7) ; min weapon radius = 8 (from 10)
hp = 195 (from 190) ; reload time = 7 seconds (from 8 seconds)

T2 bomber:
breakoffdistance = 4.4 (from 5) ; max air speed = 16 (from 15)
Bombs : 6 doing 150 damages (from 8 doing 100)
rockets : better accuracy and doing 83.5 damages (from 100)
Overall damages is still 1400, but it will deal more of that amount than before (less spread out)
Overall, the unit is significantly buffed (normally, it is the best Fighter / Bomber of all factions).

Land:
t1 tank : mass cost = 54 (from 52) ;hp = 265 (from 260)
rate of fire = 1.25 (from 0.87), damages = 20 (from 30) = 25 DPS (from 26)
muzzle velocity = 28 (from 25)

T1 mobile AA:
vision radius = 20 (from 18) ; HP = 140 (from 160)
AA rate of fire = 1.25 (from 1.1) ; damage = 14 (from 15) ; AA DPS = 17.5 (from 16.5)

T2 fast hover tank:
buildtime = 1000 (from 880) ; energy = 1500 (from 1320)
HP = 950 (from 900)
damages = 7 ; rate of fire = 5 (from 4) ; DPS = 70 (from 78) ; turret turn speed = 180 (from 150)

T2 heavy tank : mass cost = 252 (from 250) ; buildtime = 1120 (from 1200); energy = 1260 (from 1200)
HP = 1750 (from 1600)
rate of fire = 0.6667 (from 0.7) ; DPS = 70 (from 73.5)

T2 EMP tank:
mass cost = 297 (from 300)
range = 32 (from 30)
rate of fire = 0.769 (from 0.75), bombard rate of fire = 1.6667 (from 1.8), damage = 20 (from 15); damage to shields = 160 (from 165).
veterancy = 4/8/12/16/20 (from 3/6/9/12/15)
pip
Supreme Commander
 
Posts: 1825
Joined: 04 Oct 2011, 15:33
Has liked: 191 times
Been liked: 86 times
FAF User Name: pip

Re: Build 47 balance changelog

Postby Ithilis_Quo » 01 Apr 2014, 20:06

I appreciate this path. :P

Was not lucky from T1 gunship, but for less mass its adequate, i think it will be better for 4000 energy(maybe 3800) and not more like it was, for easier posibility to spaming (its paper) but styll its ok.

Spedfire is great! It was shit but now is excellent! I fall in love with me bombard/snipe toggle idea, and its hard for me divorce with it. But now is perfect.

_LAND_
Bandit: im not sure that this help, why it cost more? its +2% HP and lose 4% dmg and cost 4%more. Its miror, but why price go up, maybe go 2% down will be more accurate. bandits are still raped against auroras. maybe litle speed buff help him against them. 2 auroras raped my 4 bandits, and i do nothing with them :/

AA: greater vision make adequate with others AA. its nice

Brute: its nice, only fhilosofical question, would not be better if it will be 250mass for approximated value, and better memorizing, i never understand why pilar cost 197 and not 200 mass.

DOMINATOR: same mass value question, dominator is great tank, but need complex army, and its not cheapest one, better say hes expensive and do nearly zero dmg. Then he dont need so big veterancy level, when is nearly imposible with him kill something. T1 tank do more dmg like dominator will. then veterancy would be less for example go up after one/two kills. I dont remember a situation when dominator kill something ;) hes pure suport not killer.
_________________________
again nice path, thx for that :!:
________________________

technical problem:
- destroyed tanks dont show wreck corect. It was ok in past now its problem again, tanks go out from zoom out look, but on zoom in they look same like fresh build.
- Score bar with player name and score in nomad mod i dont see corect, its pushed 2-3cm out of my monitor. happend only in nomads.
- freind say me that hotbuild doesnt work on nomads (i dont use it)
- fast temlate mod dont work on nomads (i use it instead of HB)

technical suggestion:
- scarab field enginer, is classified like enginer not like army units. When i tag my army, he will stay in base like other enginers. Can he be reclasified as army units? That help a lot by with army managment.

Ps: Nomads so good! Thx for you work on this best parth of faf.
"Fixed in Equilibrium" Washy
User avatar
Ithilis_Quo
Supreme Commander
 
Posts: 1311
Joined: 29 Dec 2012, 15:55
Location: Slovakia
Has liked: 369 times
Been liked: 171 times
FAF User Name: Ithilis

Re: Build 47 balance changelog

Postby pip » 01 Apr 2014, 21:28

Thanks for the feedback.

The reason for the high energy price of t1 gunship is that it should not be available too early. If you can spam t1 gunships very early, you can win the game too easily on small map. That's why GPG gave a very high energy price to Jester. Nomads one will be very different though with a very low mass cost, so that you can spam it easily once you have enough energy.

As for mass costs (54 mass instead of 52, 252 mass instead of 250), it's all because of how much mass you consume per second. All GPG units consume a round number (t1 units consume 4 mass, not 4.1 or 4.23 mass, exatly 4 mass). Nomads Bandit used to consume 3.8 per second instead of 4. It was written -3 mass, because you don't have the exact value. I adjusted the proper cost for the buildtime so that it consumes 4 mass.
This is the reason why Pillar costs 198 mass and not 200 because the unit consumes 9 mass x 22 seconds to build. If buildtime is 20 seconds and consumption is also 10 per second, you can have a round number, but 10 mass per second is one more mex production, that's a lot.

The Bandit is better against auroras because it kills them in exactly 7 shots (no overkill, 7x20 damages = 140), and they shoot more often. If auroras are still too strong maybe it's because they are too strong against all factions, not because Bandits are bad. Compare auroras against Sera, they will also kill the tanks without suffering any loss. Maybe the Bandit speed will be increased a bit, because it used to have 3.6 speed, but there was complains that it was too strong then. Play a lot of 1v1 games against other factions, and i will see if it's safe to revert the speed to 3.6 or if it's good enough as it is.

The Dominator can actually get veterancy easily because there are some units with few hp, like scouts, auroras, t1 arties, but also mobile shields (it shoots at them in priority) etc, and it has splash damages, so it can finish some units very often. Since it has a lot of HP, that's why the veterancy was increased a bit. Of course, it will never kill a Ilshavoh alone :D The Dominator is a hard to use unit, but is very useful in a Nomad army, for support.

We will see about the field engineer, but since it has absolutely no weapon except a mobile TMD, it's hard to say if it's better to label it as engineer or attack unit.

As for hotbuild, it normally works fine in Nomads, since FAF integration and last updatge, however, it's not compatible with other hotbuild mod. You need to uninstall the hotbuild mod and use FAF hotbuild to make it work with nomads.
pip
Supreme Commander
 
Posts: 1825
Joined: 04 Oct 2011, 15:33
Has liked: 191 times
Been liked: 86 times
FAF User Name: pip

Re: Build 47 balance changelog

Postby Ithilis_Quo » 01 Apr 2014, 22:50

Scarab fielt enginer: It will be better on army, for fast after party reclaim on field, and shield building and etc... when its not atack units then normal enginer is better choice. Its no reason for making him home when you dont want use TMD ability, and that would be easy fixed on place with fix buton what he had.

DOMINATOR: how big splash dmg it had? i was never recognize somthing like that exist. Do that splash dmg make same stun on that AOE? (if yes thats greeeat! if not, dont we want bring it in?:D something like normal stun for primar object and micro stun 0,2sec for AOE)

GUNSHIP - today i found that is not called golem :D
I understand this problem. But today i try it go first titmous like try it with jester, and hes paper, its not so big problem like it looks like, enemy build fast AA turet and i go out in moment when it was build and fall on edge of range :D it totally screw my eco and kill only 2-3 engineers. When it had only 350HP its easy to kill by 2 AA tanks when jester come who cost more its muth biger problem, becase you dont kill him, and he had enougt hp to go out of threat where titmouse die.
__________________


I was writing it to Brute54 and im not sure if im right probably not, but styll... :

when is map where is not open water pool where you can use speed and range and manevre your ship out, but some kind of river or lake what is 70% of water maps, then hover tanks win against ship. And nomads had T3 and T4 hover, what totaly scruew enemy ships. It will not be better when T3/4 hover will not be hover, but amphibious like is cybran engyner? Styll over water posible atack, but vulnerable against torpedos, what push you to build navy too, and not totaly skip it for better T4? Whats your oppinion?
"Fixed in Equilibrium" Washy
User avatar
Ithilis_Quo
Supreme Commander
 
Posts: 1311
Joined: 29 Dec 2012, 15:55
Location: Slovakia
Has liked: 369 times
Been liked: 171 times
FAF User Name: Ithilis

Re: Build 47 balance changelog

Postby Ithilis_Quo » 02 Apr 2014, 16:29

i try T1 bomber, and it doesnt kill every T1 units like tank destroer do, how you say. Isnt it bug, or you say it hipetetical, becase T1 except striker had >=like 280?
On strieker do 280 or 140 dmg depend how well its manevrable.
"Fixed in Equilibrium" Washy
User avatar
Ithilis_Quo
Supreme Commander
 
Posts: 1311
Joined: 29 Dec 2012, 15:55
Location: Slovakia
Has liked: 369 times
Been liked: 171 times
FAF User Name: Ithilis

Re: Build 47 balance changelog

Postby pip » 02 Apr 2014, 18:26

Ithilis_Quo wrote:i try T1 bomber, and it doesnt kill every T1 units like tank destroer do, how you say. Isnt it bug, or you say it hipetetical, becase T1 except striker had >=like 280?
On strieker do 280 or 140 dmg depend how well its manevrable.


Ah crap, it now has 4 individual rockets instead of 2, so only 2 rockets reload time were changed instead of 4. That will be fixed.
pip
Supreme Commander
 
Posts: 1825
Joined: 04 Oct 2011, 15:33
Has liked: 191 times
Been liked: 86 times
FAF User Name: pip

Re: Build 47 balance changelog

Postby Ithilis_Quo » 04 Apr 2014, 19:35

Hi Pip,
I try many time gunships, and its unusable for spaming, energy cost is so hight, so its imposible make them for biger army, on small map, on bigger one its better.
When you decide go for titmous you dont had army, because you build energy, and then AA take gunships easy down so you dont do real dmg to army, but what they are excelent is harasing mexis and enginers. but only on time when interceptors come. And when you build gunships and inties you totaly dont had land army, and you lose hard on land. On small map are not threat on bigger they are better, becase enginer must go further so its more anoyng lose them. Look on some replays and decide, but i think it easyli can be 4000e or maybe 3800e -85e per sec. similar like bomber

ps tank destroeyr are great units! :ugeek:
"Fixed in Equilibrium" Washy
User avatar
Ithilis_Quo
Supreme Commander
 
Posts: 1311
Joined: 29 Dec 2012, 15:55
Location: Slovakia
Has liked: 369 times
Been liked: 171 times
FAF User Name: Ithilis

Re: Build 47 balance changelog

Postby pip » 07 Apr 2014, 13:28

I never saw a single replay where you built an air factory first with very early gunship on a small map. That's the kind of thing that has to be tested specifically on small maps. If you go the regular 2nd air factory, then it's very easy to counter the gunship, I know it's not strong in that case.

As for t4 experimentals, they don't need (and should not) be amphibious. There are very few maps where they are unfair because if the water is not deep, then all experimentals will be able to shoot as well, and if the water is deep, then t3 navy is stronger than they are. On sea, they are outclassed by battleships (range and costs). If they are also vulnerable to torpedoes, they will be absolutely useless on sea, especially against Sera t3 subs and Atlantis.

However, the t3 tank becoming amphibious (vulnerable to subs) instead of hovering is a good idea to limit their strength on water (though if all t3 units were nerfed, this wouldn't be necessary). I'll see with Brute how it should look like.

As for tank destroyers, they are a great unit indeed, but only for defense, not so much for attack. They are pefectly accurate when immobile, very inacurate when they shoot and move at the same time. You need to protect them with Bandits, and use them from behind, otherwise, they will be useless. There is a button, anchor, to make them stop and not move. In that mode, they are acurate and have slightly more range.
pip
Supreme Commander
 
Posts: 1825
Joined: 04 Oct 2011, 15:33
Has liked: 191 times
Been liked: 86 times
FAF User Name: pip

Re: Build 47 balance changelog

Postby Ithilis_Quo » 07 Apr 2014, 19:19

here is one, but sadly its desync, and 10x10 map, and was shoot down by T1 tower in moment they was build. Ok i try specialy this one, after this game (on replay) i never had balls do it again :D

the range differences on anchor sniper tank is 28range vs 30? (same as gun acu?)

yeah and know that they are useless on attack, I try it and hardly fall down :D i think you see it
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
"Fixed in Equilibrium" Washy
User avatar
Ithilis_Quo
Supreme Commander
 
Posts: 1311
Joined: 29 Dec 2012, 15:55
Location: Slovakia
Has liked: 369 times
Been liked: 171 times
FAF User Name: Ithilis

Re: Build 47 balance changelog

Postby Ithilis_Quo » 07 Apr 2014, 22:42

And here is one fresh,
I litle scrue a start when start build pgen out of range, but it dont cost more like 10 sec.

On small map, its worse. It easyli can be 66% of jester.
I send you one for comparing with jester. Im not so good air player like speed is, i can go on stupid and imposible situation :o , but still litle diferences are on diferent unit too.

Jester Replay UID:2057290


I ask somone else to try it, because im terible on this role :D
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
"Fixed in Equilibrium" Washy
User avatar
Ithilis_Quo
Supreme Commander
 
Posts: 1311
Joined: 29 Dec 2012, 15:55
Location: Slovakia
Has liked: 369 times
Been liked: 171 times
FAF User Name: Ithilis

Next

Return to Nomads Balance

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest