If you think something in nomads is unbalanced...

Balance discussions for The Nomads.

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Re: If you think something in nomads is unbalanced...

Postby Softly » 01 Jan 2013, 20:55

Ok sheppard just chill please.

Washy the beamer does not hover, it goes underwater (It only hovers over ground :D)
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Re: If you think something in nomads is unbalanced...

Postby Sunny » 01 Jan 2013, 22:03

Bricks are not cost effective vs ML, Fatboy, GC, I suspect, they are not cost effective vs Sera chicken too. For ML, I'll specifically point you, that you can micro it even to hit heavy t4 with microwave laser (I lost one of games to Grozoth because of the fact), not even being hit.

Also, I suggest you to make points as I do, and do suggestions, not just to criticize the others' suggestions, just make an attempt to keep the level of discussion. For example, I do a real suggestion about an unused unit, which is t1 tank destroyer, you just criticize my suggestion, not providing anything for the exchange.
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Re: If you think something in nomads is unbalanced...

Postby Softly » 01 Jan 2013, 23:42

Sunny wrote:Also, I suggest you to make points as I do, and do suggestions, not just to criticize the others' suggestions, just make an attempt to keep the level of discussion. For example, I do a real suggestion about an unused unit, which is t1 tank destroyer, you just criticize my suggestion, not providing anything for the exchange.


I'm sorry if I appear to be rude or offhand with your balance ideas because that is certainly not my intention. I think its fantastic that you're so interested in the nomads! My aim is only to play the devils advocate here, since balancing isn't a case of proposition -> change. Ideas need to be discussed, counters need to be fully thought out, alternatives considered etc etc. I'm just trying to implement some of the thoroughness that has already been applied to every change made in the nomads.

As for making suggestions, I think its probably fair to say that I have made more of those on this forum than anyone else, despite the majority of my balance ideas and issues being carried out via the pm system on FAF. Trust me when I say I am still looking to perfect nomads because as awesome as they are, they will need constant care and attention, just like the other four factions have been getting every patch.

Now back onto topic.

I've attached a replay of me doing some tests with Bricks vs Experimentals, and the results clearly come in favour of Bricks as far as mass effectiveness goes. I also did tests vs half the mass cost of the experimentals, with the aim of providing something more realistic in games since the buildtime for t3 land is far higher. Although I will concede that the micro certainly won't be perfect on either set of forces, I think it is obvious that Bricks are more mass effective.

I also included a quick test of the beamer vs 100 Othuums, just to make obvious the point of it being effective vs units with less range. (You will notice that once in range, the Othuums finish it pretty quick) Its a similar story for Bricks, only the Bricks will always be in range.
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Re: If you think something in nomads is unbalanced...

Postby Sunny » 02 Jan 2013, 01:24

Thanks for what you do, Nomads are certainly awesome and have many good concepts implemented.

But I still think, that bricks are not cost effective versus anything but Beamers and eager to proove it. I don't think it changed much since 3603. I'm up for sandbox testing with micro anytime I'm online.
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Re: If you think something in nomads is unbalanced...

Postby Poch » 07 Mar 2013, 13:23

Hi,

I was wondering if there is a counter to the orbital bombardment upgrade of the ACU ?

The cost is roughly the same as 2 mexes T2 upgrades (with higher energy cost), but if only shields can counter it, it is a little OP, on small maps, no ?

I've attached a replay of me doing some tests with Bricks vs Experimentals, and the results clearly come in favour of Bricks as far as mass effectiveness goes.

IIRC, it the case for all experimentals in game, spider, chicken, colossus... They all get raped by T3 bots mass for mass. (just saying, i do not bring anything constructive for or against your post as i dont know the nomads XP very well ^^)
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Re: If you think something in nomads is unbalanced...

Postby pip » 07 Mar 2013, 14:10

Poch wrote:Hi,

I was wondering if there is a counter to the orbital bombardment upgrade of the ACU ?

The cost is roughly the same as 2 mexes T2 upgrades (with higher energy cost), but if only shields can counter it, it is a little OP, on small maps, no ?



It can be countered bu TMD.
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Re: If you think something in nomads is unbalanced...

Postby ColonelSheppard » 07 Mar 2013, 14:51

and by mobile shields :O
you have to build the tmd where you need it and not somewhere in the way (yeah thats new) also it does way less dmg than a normal TML i dunno the exact value
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Re: If you think something in nomads is unbalanced...

Postby MushrooMars » 07 Mar 2013, 17:12

All Nomads experimentals rape T3 land because they all fly.

"Oh, you have Bricks? That's cool bro, I'm just gonna drop this giant assault tank inside your shield bubbles and throw a few missile spam tanks behind your base and stuff."

And then you can use all of your experimental Transports as mercies and drop them on top of the enemy commander. Game over, T3 land is still in transit.
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Re: If you think something in nomads is unbalanced...

Postby shpxlbh » 23 Jan 2014, 08:04

I just played a game of nomads for the first time. 5 versus 5 on thermopolyae.

I managed to win with almost no effort, so I think they are totally overpowered. I can't put my finger on exactly why seeing as I didn't record the game and it was my first one. I'm about to have another match, if my opinion changes I'll report back.

I have a suspicion that their tech 3 artillery is totally overpowered. The moment I built one the 5 enemy commanders started going down like dominoes, and when I zoomed out all I could see was spam coming from the artillery satellite. It was cool, but definitely felt more like an experimental artillery than a tech 3 one. I swear... it was more effective than a mavor!

Also maybe introduce a general nerf to all their experimentals except for the transport so that you can't just end the game by dropping a fatboy on the enemy commanders face. Or keep it the same, but make it so that the experimental transport can only carry the first, cheap and small experimental, as well as any T123 units.

Random note while I'm still talking: the T3 rocket artillery is awesome, but it's skin is borked.
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