Forged Alliance Forever

Re: Balance patch 3688 Feedback Thread

2017-10-23T11:31:30+02:00

Really interesting...it could be possible to leave this option avaliable but balancing the sat to make it fair? All to add "faction diversity" of course.

Statistics: Posted by NapSpan — 23 Oct 2017, 11:31

Re: Balance patch 3688 Feedback Thread

2017-10-22T22:50:25+02:00

PhilipJFry wrote:
butch3r wrote:
keyser wrote:the sat die when the nuke impact it.

you can shoot down the missile with the sats beam weapon, without loosing the sat itself. just run of the sat firing sequence and when the nuke launched warning is played you have to turn it on. the beam will kill the missile.

replay: 6949691
around 40mins.

can you reproduce killing a nuke (doesn't matter if yolo or regular) with the beam from the novax in a short sandbox?
depending on how easy it is to do we will have to do something about it

easy. very.

sandbox replay.
6951939
did both exp and regular nuke

sorry for my noobness in sandbox, basically this is the 1st time i did
this is also the 1st time i did this blocking. i just experienced it on myself today.

turn of firing on novax, move command on top of nuke, when heard "nuke laucnh detected" turn on firing. repeat.

Statistics: Posted by butch3r — 22 Oct 2017, 22:50

Re: Balance patch 3688 Feedback Thread

2017-10-22T22:25:01+02:00

butch3r wrote:
keyser wrote:the sat die when the nuke impact it.

you can shoot down the missile with the sats beam weapon, without loosing the sat itself. just run of the sat firing sequence and when the nuke launched warning is played you have to turn it on. the beam will kill the missile.

replay: 6949691
around 40mins.

can you reproduce killing a nuke (doesn't matter if yolo or regular) with the beam from the novax in a short sandbox?
depending on how easy it is to do we will have to do something about it

Statistics: Posted by PhilipJFry — 22 Oct 2017, 22:25

Re: Balance patch 3688 Feedback Thread

2017-10-22T22:08:14+02:00

keyser wrote:
the sat die when the nuke impact it.

you can shoot down the missile with the sats beam weapon, without loosing the sat itself. just run of the sat firing sequence and when the nuke launched warning is played you have to turn it on. the beam will kill the missile.

replay: 6949691
around 40mins.

Statistics: Posted by butch3r — 22 Oct 2017, 22:08

Re: Balance patch 3688 Feedback Thread

2017-10-22T18:42:56+02:00

the sat die when the nuke impact it.

Statistics: Posted by keyser — 22 Oct 2017, 18:42

Re: Balance patch 3688 Feedback Thread

2017-10-22T18:16:09+02:00

28k unit (novax) single handedly blocking a 180k unit. yolo is barely used imo, and after this great balance it'll be used even less. is this really the intention to have 1 28k unit be able to make a 180k unit completely useless?

Statistics: Posted by butch3r — 22 Oct 2017, 18:16

Re: Balance patch 3688 Feedback Thread

2017-10-17T03:49:22+02:00

Yes, as biass said, raping BP is just as important as raping eco. Deny the power to build and you have won. Deny the eco without winning quickly and the enemy will rebuild from the mass you donated.

Statistics: Posted by Lieutenant Lich — 17 Oct 2017, 03:49

Re: Balance patch 3688 Feedback Thread

2017-10-15T04:36:31+02:00

Endranii wrote:
Play Bh edit today so it get's ranked tomorrow! No more crying about bad balance decisions!

Sure!

Ontopic, you cannot keep bringing up the BS/ T3 plane comparison in response to the plethora of new issues in response to the new system, fixing one issue isn't really good if the fix creates 100 others in it's wake.

Endranii wrote:
Cuz' killin' bunch of t1 engies is more important than going after mexes? Is that what you want to say? Reward killing "useless" stuff instead of the important one?

Yeah most of the time i rather wipe buildpower so an enemy cannot spam defense / rebuild instead of spending valuable extra seconds waiting for a T3 mex to go down, especially if an enemy can just rebuild said mex with the reclaim from the mex itself or from the smoking corpse of the monkeylord/etc next to it.

Please stop talking "oh i never saw scenario X happen ever" if it can happen ingame, it will, and it's the job of the Bteam/you+us as feedback providers to account for that. "Oh haha X never happens" is why we are in this mess in the first place.

Statistics: Posted by biass — 15 Oct 2017, 04:36

Re: Balance patch 3688 Feedback Thread

2017-10-14T22:59:10+02:00

If your monkeylord is being attacked by mantises (and i will assume they were all built and ready by the time they attacked) couldn't you, dunno, bring units of your own to counter them? Like Revenants for their AoE? Or your own Mantises? Or Rhinos? Or Hoplites? Bricks? Loyalists?

Statistics: Posted by zeroAPM — 14 Oct 2017, 22:59

Re: Balance patch 3688 Feedback Thread

2017-10-14T20:03:00+02:00

The replay is useless, since it was an (unranked) training game against a noobie. ID: 6886981
I just realised that you can suddenly use your t1 crap against a ML.

Emmm this is how it was for as long as I remember? Mass to mass experimentals were always weaker than other units? They are just fast to build? And if they were raping t1 enmasse it was due to the cancerous vet with bullshittery instaregen system.

I dont get how you can be happy about the fact, that shit units can do lots of damage to an EXP.

Not to mention that it's already OP when you have air control and it doesn't need vet to rape everything when sky is clear of enemy asf

It fucking should be. You probable want T1 AA turrets be able to kill 3 soul rippers.
Do you want to turn SupCom Experimentals into SupCom2 Experimentals?

You can do it easy lol. Just learn how to count to more than 1,2,3 and easy-peasy now you know that 100% striker is 54 mass while 10% one is 5.4. So which one do you kill?

Because you manually target tanks in engagements? one after the other. What?

are contradicting yourself when you say that T4 veting on t1 is problem but when I say that tweaking the old system would give you same results as this mass system you start laughing even though just second before you say that it was enough to tweak the old system? Well lol.

People perceive it as the problem. I want to point out that it gives a bigger gap between T1 and T4, which is a good thing IMHO. If percies, Bricks or Harbs kill my T4 its great. If T2 tanks kill my T4, I probably am not good at judging huge forces. If T1 kills my T4 its ludicrous. Who in his right mind thinks this is right???
And the Donut already was a huge mercy. You do not need air control to kill it, just a couple ASF. Even worse with Ahwassa, since the AA on it is worse. And the Ripper needs to stay at a single location for a long time to deal its damage. It is much more Paper than you think it is.

Just as a side remark: Your disdaining attitude does not empower arguments.

Statistics: Posted by 5cript — 14 Oct 2017, 20:03

Re: Balance patch 3688 Feedback Thread

2017-10-14T17:26:30+02:00

So the game should be all T1? Nothing else? Every Tech Jump crushes prior tech level, but suddenly you can invest "tiny" mass to kill a T4? Zthuee Spam ftw.
This is very wrong.

Emmm this is how it was for as long as I remember? Mass to mass experimentals were always weaker than other units? They are just fast to build? And if they were raping t1 enmasse it was due to the cancerous vet with bullshittery instaregen system. And suddenly it's not so easy to just move your experimental into enemy base and just watch the world burn? Huh? Seems it hurts that now you actually have to pay attention to your experimentals.

No, but the Soul Ripper will never ever vet again. Enough Said. Is this the right thing?

Prolly gonna get tweaked? Not to mention that it's already OP when you have air control and it doesn't need vet to rape everything when sky is clear of enemy asf. Also if it vet's now you can at least try to keep it alive instead of having to ctrl+k it in base for the sake of sucking mass.

They are suprisingly strong against T2 bombers as well.

Play Bh edit today so it get's ranked tomorrow! No more crying about bad balance decisions!

Dont run T1 into T4, ACU veterancy and maybe that you dont vet the cruiser by torpedo bomber streaming.

You still are not supposed to do it unless you have shit load of mass in t1? Also how nice that you forgot about over 100 units that also try their best to vet

No I think you cannot do anything like this anymore. You cannot predict how much you vet anymore. I dont argue for or against this. Might even be a good thing, but probably not.

You can do it easy lol. Just learn how to count to more than 1,2,3 and easy-peasy now you know that 100% striker is 54 mass while 10% one is 5.4. So which one do you kill?

Lol this is what the mass vet change does... XD

Read again what I wrote.

The problem was vetting T4 off of T1. This was the only problem with veterancy, but you think the right approach was to change every single unit in the game and all interactions, just to fix this one problem? The idea sounds good at first, but crushes predictability and has absolutely infinite unforseeable consequences. It does not just touch one thing but the balance of eeeevveeerryyytthhiiinngg

Emm okay, so maybe let's just remove Vet from all units but Exp and acu? This should make it easy to see what will happen and how will it happen. And you really are contradicting yourself when you say that T4 veting on t1 is problem but when I say that tweaking the old system would give you same results as this mass system you start laughing even though just second before you say that it was enough to tweak the old system? Well lol.

Plz link replay of monkey losing to mantis so we can laugh

Also this please to !

Statistics: Posted by Endranii — 14 Oct 2017, 17:26

Re: Balance patch 3688 Feedback Thread

2017-10-14T17:22:22+02:00

Plz link replay of monkey losing to mantis so we can laugh

Statistics: Posted by TheKoopa — 14 Oct 2017, 17:22

Re: Balance patch 3688 Feedback Thread

2017-10-14T15:20:21+02:00

Hmph, just so you know 19k worth of mantis is 10.2k dps and 100k hp of pure Cybran bullshit compared to your 45k hp 4.5k dps from ML. And isn't it obvious that Experimentals are worse mass to mass than their smaller tech? You make them to save time not to be better than other mass produced stuff.

So the game should be all T1? Nothing else? Every Tech Jump crushes prior tech level, but suddenly you can invest "tiny" mass to kill a T4? Zthuee Spam ftw.
This is very wrong.

Cuz' killin' bunch of t1 engies is more important than going after mexes?

No, but the Soul Ripper will never ever vet again. Enough Said. Is this the right thing?

Ad. 4 They are supposed to counter bombers so that's what they do?

They are suprisingly strong against T2 bombers as well.

You never thought about vetting system before?

There were only three things to keep in mind:
Dont run T1 into T4, ACU veterancy and maybe that you dont vet the cruiser by torpedo bomber streaming.

Now you will have smt to actually think about when you want to vet your acu other than just, oh here is unit let's OC it for vet and gg.

No I think you cannot do anything like this anymore. You cannot predict how much you vet anymore. I dont argue for or against this. Might even be a good thing, but probably not.

it but then I bet we would see complaints why does it take now 500 t1 units to vet megalith? Or why does brick gives more points than Harb? Also finally going after base is more important than killing t1 engies around to gain vet.

Lol this is what the mass vet change does... XD

The problem was vetting T4 off of T1. This was the only problem with veterancy, but you think the right approach was to change every single unit in the game and all interactions, just to fix this one problem? The idea sounds good at first, but crushes predictability and has absolutely infinite unforseeable consequences. It does not just touch one thing but the balance of eeeevveeerryyytthhiiinngg

Statistics: Posted by 5cript — 14 Oct 2017, 15:20

Re: Balance patch 3688 Feedback Thread

2017-10-14T12:13:25+02:00

Ad.1 - Cuz' killin' bunch of t1 engies is more important than going after mexes? Is that what you want to say? Reward killing "useless" stuff instead of the important one? And honestly I never saw ahwassa made to kill units, it was always more of eco/base wrecking tool or Sera Mercy.

Ad.2 State your point by pointing out the examples? Cuz' at the moment it seem's okay? 2 asf kills for single asf to vet, 2 t2 gunship kills for flak to vet? 4 engie kills for vet on t1 bomber? Seems fine to me.

Ad.3 Hmph, just so you know 19k worth of mantis is 10.2k dps and 100k hp of pure Cybran bullshit compared to your 45k hp 4.5k dps from ML. And isn't it obvious that Experimentals are worse mass to mass than their smaller tech? You make them to save time not to be better than other mass produced stuff.

Ad.4 They are supposed to counter bombers so that's what they do? And this can be tweaked by the balance team without problems, or actually it was already said that the mass needed to vet will be tweaked more?

Imo this is way more balanced than it was, saying that t3 scout was worth as much as BS is what epitome of unbalanced vet system is. And yeah we could probably stay on the "digits" system and tweak it but then I bet we would see complaints why does it take now 500 t1 units to vet megalith? Or why does brick gives more points than Harb? Also finally going after base is more important than killing t1 engies around to gain vet.

You never thought about vetting system before? Well just proves that it was in sad state that ppl didn't care about it or even noticed it. Now you will have smt to actually think about when you want to vet your acu other than just, oh here is unit let's OC it for vet and gg.

Statistics: Posted by Endranii — 14 Oct 2017, 12:13

Re: Balance patch 3688 Feedback Thread

2017-10-14T06:40:28+02:00

Concerning Air EXP Vet (this is what BRNK meant): (youtube video ID, since I am not allowed to post links yet; SiJZWXau4HQ 52:30+)

1) you expect an ahwassa to kill at least 24k mass to vet once? Not even an ML kill would vet it.
On the other hand t3 mex clumps vet it "fast". Units not at all.

2) Also I am concerned with Air/Anti Air Vet balance. Air is "low" mass and high energy cost, but vet only takes mass into account. I dont know if thats fair for all combinations.

3) T1 should be childs play for a T4, but my ML was recently almost killed by a swarm of t1 mantis... this feels ridiculous.
EDIT: T1 Arty might even be a perfect counter, or LABs for that matter.

4) The veterancy change buffed t1 mobile anti air once again.

I am sure I will find more to lament about the mass based vet system. I think it is unbalanceable because of all the possible unit kill combinations.
The change affects TOOOO much. I have never thought about vet much, but this change suddenly shows me the importance and impact of the system.

I have never been concerned about changes in a similar fashion. This change rings huge red alarms above my head almost wanting a fork of last balance.

Statistics: Posted by 5cript — 14 Oct 2017, 06:40