Forged Alliance Forever

Re: SCUs nerf.

2013-03-17T12:58:29+02:00

Storage damage is reduced, and non-existent if you ctrl-k it, should be enough.

Statistics: Posted by Ze_PilOt — 17 Mar 2013, 12:58

Re: SCUs nerf.

2013-03-17T12:59:19+02:00

After some tests, I don't think Cybran SCU needs real nerf like HP nerf. They really need the extra HP because they are the only SCU that cannot boost their HP with a "cheap" upgrade (shield). Their only way to get more HP is through invisibility upgrade, and it's very, very expensive.
Cybran SCU underwater don't kill your fleet, HARMs do, so it's better to solve the real balance problem instead of altering a unit that has many more roles than just HARMS creeping on Setons.

As for Sera SCU teleporting ability, it's really strong, but it's really expensive. What is the status of the "freeze idea", so that they can't react for 5 or 10 seconds on arrival? Imo, it's not necessary, because if the opponent has half a brain, if he spots a "Seraphim Quantum Gateway", one of the biggest structures in the game, he should say to himself : "there is a high probability of a tele snipe, let's prepare a welcome party".

Statistics: Posted by pip — 17 Mar 2013, 12:57

Re: SCUs nerf.

2013-03-17T05:16:42+02:00

The scus will probably be nerfed, as most people want, but..
It is not right, because the scus are exactly meant to be disruptive in endgame and they should be healthy enough
to do so.
It is not lame to cause you a heart attack, if they attack you in ways "unexpected" after more than 30 min gameplay.
Lame is to build an obscene amount of static defenses and rot like Jabba the hutt behind them laughing as obscene amounts
Of military is wasted before your gates. Then build nukes, with an untouchable economy and think you are a boss.
Sorry, but I have seen this happening in supreme commander 2 and it is NOT epic, but indeed a very lame situation.
If you want to play a bit sleepy then admit it and play no teleport games, there's nothing wrong with this if it's fun to you.
As for harms, I think it is NOT overpowered, but too much UEF ish for Cybrans. If it could be nerfed in exchange for more
Powerful battleships, I would like to see this happening.

Statistics: Posted by prodromos — 17 Mar 2013, 05:16

Re: SCUs nerf.

2013-02-25T17:36:19+02:00

Maybe it's so obvious that I will sound stupid but : You can also teleport to snipe the Nuke Launcher.

Statistics: Posted by Ze_PilOt — 25 Feb 2013, 17:36

Re: SCUs nerf.

2013-02-25T17:30:03+02:00

Again, read the cost description of teleportation and the cost of the intended target.

Statistics: Posted by Plasma_Wolf — 25 Feb 2013, 17:30

Re: SCUs nerf.

2013-02-25T00:39:56+02:00

wow, i learned a lot of things reading this topic, i didn't know people used this kind of (lame-ass) techniques ^_^

i see a lot of solutions have been proposed, but in my opinion the simplest way to fix that is to implement a teleportation disruptor of something.
you can invent a new building, but if you're as lazy as me, you could just add this function to the T2/T3 radar, everyone has one in his base independently of the faction.

the cooldown after teleportation is also an acceptable solution, but once you have an enemy SACU in your base, aren't you screwed when you blow it up anyway ?

concerning its health underwater, well, i don't know.

Statistics: Posted by lapantouflemagic — 25 Feb 2013, 00:39

Re: SCUs nerf.

2013-02-22T00:29:09+02:00

Re-read the poll survey intro. These are just proposal, then it goes through a month-length of testing.

It's more a "opinion" survey that a "it will make it to a patch for sure" survey.

Maybe it will freeze, maybe it will not, maybe there will be a max range for teleporting, no door is closed, but I don't want to multiply the options for nothing.

Statistics: Posted by Ze_PilOt — 22 Feb 2013, 00:29

IMPORTANT FOR VOTE Re: SCUs nerf.

2013-02-22T00:20:01+02:00

The voting has started and I already voted.

There are nice options BUT you can just vote (if you are FOR a NERF) for a time limit where the SCU can not build AND NOT move!
Did I understand that correct? I did here an "unsure" tick, because if someone would ever do a teleport, he should be able to move right on the sport or did I missunderstand something?

Statistics: Posted by rxnnxs — 22 Feb 2013, 00:20

Re: SCUs nerf.

2013-02-22T00:09:13+02:00

FunkOff wrote:
uberge3k wrote:As Plasma_Wolf has noted, the math simply does not add up. Being able to destroy structures with energy storage is an excellent example of emergent gameplay, and nerfing it just so that people can turtle more easily is ridiculous.

Make multiple SMDs. Or guard them with mercies/firebeetles/TMLs. Or scout your enemy and utilize the advantage that he gives you if he chooses to make the large investment in teleporting SCUs instead of waiting for him to finish and use it.

A "teleport warning" is ridiculous.

I agree with all of this.

This is right on the money - signed

Statistics: Posted by Typo91 — 22 Feb 2013, 00:09

Re: SCUs nerf.

2013-02-21T23:43:55+02:00

AppleSucks wrote:
making a small foothold base next to someone whos not paying attention or hidden radars.

Key words in your post indicate one of these players in the game is better at winning.

Statistics: Posted by Typo91 — 21 Feb 2013, 23:43

Re: SCUs nerf.

2013-02-22T00:44:37+02:00

Typo91 - over 9000 games since SC beta - Tournament winner for FA beta key - approx 1700 rating

TL:DR ITs good the way it is... IF anything where to balance, I suggest this... a Warning just like strategic launch. The moment a player begins the teleport "QUANTUM SIGNATURE DETECTED" to all players.
-also if asked upon, I can provide the sound file, i have the skills and tools to create that.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------Below, here is my argument---------------

The Support commanders Teleport can be countered. Period.

I've always played many games against people that try to use the Seraphine Shield/HP upgraded teleport commander like its going to be banned int he next patch... I can make it completely useless.

if you have only 1 anti nuke by the time they have Nuke+support commander + tele you are at fault, you have failed to scout, you have failed to protect your anti, you have failed to keep up in eco, and you have failed to have a backup.

2 separate Anti nukes, each with 25 t1 turrets near by will completely counter the tele anti nuke attack...
If you can kill 100% of the commanders that teleport in, making it a one way trip, you can take the taste for it right out of his mouth. I've come up with a counter to this that works so well, they can't even kill the anti nuke i am protecting with a double teleport dose of 2 of them at the same time.

More anti's like that make it almost imposable.

Teleporting SCUs is EXTREMELY Expensive 15,000 mass and 1,500,000 energy! just for the upgrade.. its something like -10k power just to run the teleport operation. Seriously if he has this and you dont have atleast 7,500 mass and 300,000 energy in something to counter a teleport, you are in the wrong.
Examples
Cost of 25 t1 turrets = 6250 mass and 50,000 power... chump change at that point, and delivers a WHOOPING 4166.75 DPS!!! thats more then a ML laser, with 0 over kill.

WHICH RAISES ANOTHER POINT, having a ton of t3 turrents IN your base, not on hold fire, Fatboy's not on hold fire, t3 mobile arty not on hold fire, battleships, not on hold fire, T3 Strats not on hold fire. well its your fault if they all aim at the intruder and kill your anti nuke for him. ALWAYS keep track of your area effect units. Keep them in a quick group or something. 99% of the time, you dont need that stuff on auto fire, just in the front lines, away from you anti nuke.

Units that protect from teleports, with little or no overkill = Percies, Bricks, T3 gunships!,Sniper bots, t1 turrets, subcommanders, t3 tanks, a lot of things really.You can pile those all over your base for fun without to much worry

Aeon tele porting sub commanders are extremely easy to kill before they can do damage.

Let me make some points though.
TRUE - it is possible to have so many telesubcommanders if 2 equal eco players, one building a game ender(para or mavor like exp) that at the same time the player finishes the unit the other player can have about 6-7 support commanders beam in on it will almost certainly kill it, even if just by exploding. this is why you dont put all your eggs in one basket.

Someone can always try to bomb, crash, tac, arty, or tele that 1 thing.

The Cybran sub commander argument is completely false. Harms are EASY to kill as it is with battleships, (which is the real thing that needs fixed) And second, IF you sit around and allow your opponent to build 10 + subcommanders before you show up with navy, it is you that have already failed to match your enemies' eco most likely. You probably let him sit there and just build up anyway.

HARMs counter navy... thats what they are suppose to do, and they are not FREE, 3000 mass each, (11k hp) if he can spam them, chances are your problem is not that he has access to a certain unit, its that you failed to keep him in check... if he was so brasen as to not have his own navy, and wait for you to come over to his base before using his build power alone to counter you... well then you have just lost to a turtler my friend.

For only 1080 mass that same player could just spam the Cybran T2 Torpedo Launcher and get 5800hp and get just under half the DPS, for 1/3 the price! or have a Dessie for 2250 mass with guns!

These unique units are designed to force diverse play and strategy, in this case is, either learn to scout and target the ground, learn to eco and not let him get so far ahead of you, get out of the pool, or get out of my game!

Harms can be spotted with Spy planes, and sight towers, and subs in visual range. 15 T2 seaplanes (about 3600 mass) do 11250 damage per pass, thats just 1 pass!! let alone if you get 1 more on another pass!, but let me guess, he has some over powered sam sites too??? yea buddy, whatever.

If the harms is nerfed, cybran players will just spam more subs, and in numbers they kill everything the same.

Statistics: Posted by Typo91 — 21 Feb 2013, 23:33

Re: SCUs nerf.

2013-02-21T22:31:24+02:00

ICKEN wrote:
i also think you should exclude all players with less than 1000 games or under 2k rating from balance discussions just because some of them havent fully understood the game dynamics.

I might fap to this...

Statistics: Posted by JeeVeS — 21 Feb 2013, 22:31

Re: SCUs nerf.

2013-02-21T22:25:25+02:00

What about making where they cant use the gun on the support com but they can build stuff? Even if qued up a lot of t1 pd after teleporting you should still be able to take out the support com before it does anything.

My reason behind this is, I sometimes teleport sub coms around the map and make stealth fields with them and making a small foothold base next to someone whos not paying attention or hidden radars.

Statistics: Posted by AppleSucks — 21 Feb 2013, 22:25

Re: SCUs nerf.

2013-02-21T20:42:54+02:00

to be honest i have never managed to win with a cybran sacu spam, even though i have tried it several times with 5 - 10 quantum gates. its true that some games have been won with sacu + harm kreeps but how many games where won by t3 navy? harms are great vs t2 navy or subs but you can kill them so easily with groundfire of cruisers or battleships.
even if you build your harms with several sacu´s there is enough time for naval units to shoot at it while beeing build.

no offence but i also think you should exclude all players with less than 1000 games or under 2k rating from balance discussions just because some of them havent fully understood the game dynamics. joining the balance forum is like visiting supcom wiki

Statistics: Posted by ICKEN — 21 Feb 2013, 20:42

Re: SCUs nerf.

2013-02-21T17:36:46+02:00

So the problem is the HARMS (and a nerf was proposed), not the SCU.

Statistics: Posted by Ze_PilOt — 21 Feb 2013, 17:36