Forged Alliance Forever

Re: Units Database

2018-07-22T23:24:56+02:00

Well there is a calculation of the DPS ingame.

Here is a function for all weapons and how to calculate the DPS:
(With debug function)

Code:: function GetWeaponDPS(bp,weapon) local DPS = {} DPS.Damage = 0 DPS.RateOfFire = 0 DPS.DPS = 0 -- enable debug text local bugtext = false local WeaponEco = __blueprints[weapon.ProjectileId].Economy or nil if WeaponEco and bp.Economy.BuildRate > 1 and WeaponEco.BuildTime > 1 and (WeaponEco.BuildCostEnergy > 1 or WeaponEco.BuildCostMass > 1) then if bugtext == true then LOG(' BuildTime') end local MuzzleSalvoSize = weapon.MuzzleSalvoSize or 1 DPS.RateOfFire = 1 / (__blueprints[weapon.ProjectileId].Economy.BuildTime / bp.Economy.BuildRate) if weapon.NukeInnerRingDamage > 0 then DPS.Damage = weapon.NukeInnerRingDamage + weapon.NukeOuterRingDamage else DPS.Damage = weapon.Damage * MuzzleSalvoSize end elseif weapon.DoTPulses then if bugtext == true then LOG(' DoTPulses') end DPS.RateOfFire = 1 / (math.round(10/weapon.RateOfFire) / 10) DPS.Damage = weapon.Damage * weapon.MuzzleSalvoSize * weapon.DoTPulses elseif weapon.ContinuousBeam then -- ual0401 if bugtext == true then LOG(' Continuous Beam') end --LOG(' weapon.BeamCollisionDelay='..weapon.BeamCollisionDelay) local temp = weapon.BeamCollisionDelay == 0 and 1 or weapon.BeamCollisionDelay --LOG(' temp='..temp) DPS.RateOfFire = 1 / (weapon.BeamCollisionDelay == 0 and 1 or weapon.BeamCollisionDelay) DPS.Damage = weapon.Damage * 10 elseif (weapon.BeamLifetime and weapon.BeamLifetime > 0) then -- xsb2301 xea0002 if bugtext == true then LOG(' Pulse Beam') end local BeamCollisionDelay = weapon.BeamCollisionDelay or 0 local BeamLifetime = weapon.BeamLifetime or 1 if BeamLifetime > 5 then BeamLifetime = 5 end DPS.RateOfFire = 1 / (math.round(10/weapon.RateOfFire) / 10) DPS.Damage = weapon.Damage * BeamLifetime * 10 elseif (weapon.RackSalvoReloadTime and weapon.RackSalvoReloadTime > 0) and not weapon.RackSalvoFiresAfterCharge then if bugtext == true then LOG(' Salvos') end -- Salvos don't use weapon.RateOfFire DPS.RateOfFire = 1 / ((weapon.MuzzleSalvoSize * weapon.MuzzleSalvoDelay + weapon.RackSalvoReloadTime)) DPS.Damage = weapon.Damage * weapon.MuzzleSalvoSize else -- ueb2101 if bugtext == true then LOG(' One Shot') end local ProjectilesPerOnFire = weapon.ProjectilesPerOnFire or 1 local AttackGroundTries = weapon.AttackGroundTries or 1 local MuzzleSalvoSize = weapon.MuzzleSalvoSize or 1 -- don't use ProjectilesPerOnFire if MuzzleSalvoSize is present. if MuzzleSalvoSize > 1 and ProjectilesPerOnFire > 1 then if MuzzleSalvoSize ~= ProjectilesPerOnFire then WARN('unit ['..bp.BlueprintId..'] has wrong ProjectilesPerOnFire in Weapon ['..weapon.DisplayName..']') end ProjectilesPerOnFire = 1 end DPS.RateOfFire = 1 / (math.round(10/weapon.RateOfFire) / 10) DPS.Damage = weapon.Damage * MuzzleSalvoSize * ProjectilesPerOnFire end if DPS.RateOfFire == 0 then DPS.RateOfFire = 1 end --LOG(' Damage: '..DPS.Damage..' - RateOfFire: '..DPS.RateOfFire..' - new DPS: '..(DPS.Damage*DPS.RateOfFire)) DPS.DPS = DPS.Damage*DPS.RateOfFire return DPS end

This function is included inside my (private) tooltip mod:
http://faforever.uveso.de/forum/SmartUnitTooltipV2.zip
(Needs option "Show Armament Build in Factory Menu" enabled)

This mod also displays the original FAF game calculation and Hussars calculation from the unit manager.
You will see that all 3 DPS values from the different source almost have the same dps.

But you can't calculate all weapons correctly because you don't have all needed date inside the unit blueprints.
There are some weapons with racks or multiple shoots that can't be calculated without a helper-variable added to the unitblueprint.

That's why all attempts stoped at this point.

Statistics: Posted by Uveso — 22 Jul 2018, 23:24

Re: Units Database

2018-07-22T23:15:25+02:00

approximation is better than nothing

just fix bugs as they are raised

how can icedreamer realistically know the answer?

this is too careful

Statistics: Posted by nine2 — 22 Jul 2018, 23:15

Re: Units Database

2018-07-22T16:52:38+02:00

Hi,
Sorry for the bump, I didn't see this post before.
I'm the one maintaining the current official Unit DB.
As I've stated before, there is no calculation available for DPS. The methods that currently exist don't are not unanimously accepted. There is still debate on this.
Recently, Apofenas came to me with calculations. I told him to validate them with Icedreamer : and Apofenas later came back telling me Icedreamer "neither refused nor approved those calculations".

I'm making sure that everything displayed on the Unit database is 100% accurate in representing the game stats and values. I won't implement a DPS or a Damage calculation for the moment as none really exist. But let it be known that the day someone comes to me with a perfect calculation and a seal of approval from Icedreamer himself, I will be glad to implement it in the unit db.

As exotic pointed out, Spooky's database offers good approximations for most of the units for now regarding DPS, so you can use that for the moment.

Statistics: Posted by Louvegarde — 22 Jul 2018, 16:52

Re: Units Database

2018-06-13T17:38:34+02:00

Yeah, in my tests the sera destro DPS is 95 as well. No idea why it does what it does though, maybe it's just that there's a wait tick somewhere so it takes time to check?

Oh yeah, Janus is one of those one off units that have two damage values.

216,666...206,666 DPS for cybran mobile AA actually. All of the racks fire both barrels once per firing cycle which lasts about 6 seconds. So 2x6x100=1200/6ish~around 200~ DPS.

Statistics: Posted by JoonasTo — 13 Jun 2018, 17:38

Re: Units Database

2018-06-13T16:42:45+02:00

hmm yeah indeed the destroyer has closer to 100 dps, not 160, interestingly it doesnt wait 0.8s every time but 0.8 during the salvo and 0.8+0.1 in between, so its actual dps is kinda like 95 or so
the zthuee is already known about, its gonna be fixed at some point i guess

the dot damage does indeed appear to be wrong, but the dps is correct regardless. (yes janus does 1600 damage/pass, but it never hits its bombs on one target, go figure) i didnt notice this before, the dps calculation does take it into account, so it looks like they are separate functions and one forgot to be updated.

the most fucked one is the cybran aa of course though. the script disables/enables the weapon, so some of its cooldowns are bypassed. and thats on top of 60 other different things going on in there, which make it all very confusing, and THATS on top of just random bad code which doesnt do anything but might interfere with calculations.

manual calculation of the cybran aa put it somewhere around: 120 dps so its not massively far off, but really this kinda depends on magic a little bit so dont trust this number too much either

this will take some thought to fix tbh. xD

Statistics: Posted by Exotic_Retard — 13 Jun 2018, 16:42

Re: Units Database

2018-06-13T15:08:36+02:00

T3 maa cybran, dps should be something like 333. I think.

Statistics: Posted by keyser — 13 Jun 2018, 15:08

Re: Units Database

2018-06-13T14:46:12+02:00

They are not correct.

If you look at the zthuee projectile blueprint you will see that the line that produces a child projectile in line with the original projectile is commented out so it only has five child projectiles, not six as you would assume. But like I mentioned, it's a blueprint problem, not a calculation error.

And seraphim destroyer torpedoes do 100 DPS, not 160 because of the MuzzleSalvoDelay interfering with the RateOfFire. It's unable to fire 2 torpedoes every 1 second because the MuzzleSalvoDelay is still active for 0,6 seconds. What ends up happening is a torpedo every 0,8 seconds. A constant stream.

Janus also seems wrong, should be 120 DPS not 160. Based off old data perhaps? I'm not sure how you can get 160 otherwise.

Speaking of DoT damage, the fire cycle is missing all DoT information for all units. Janus, for example, shows 120 damage per fire cycle, should be 1200. Nanite torpedo on Galaxy shows 40 damage per fire cycle, should be 200.

There's probably more but I haven't checked them all so *shrugs*

Statistics: Posted by JoonasTo — 13 Jun 2018, 14:46

Re: Units Database

2018-06-13T12:41:37+02:00

http://spooky.github.io/unitdb/#/XSL0103,XSS0201 pretty sure these are right, the torpedoes and zthuuee damage at least, found the typo in the dps code for beams that makes it incorrect for things with a beam lifetime, should have been a + not a - xd

expect that bit to be fixed soon™ at least, but the torpedo dps is correct as best i can tell. the zthuee and other splitting projectiles need to be fixed in the blueprints themselves, they are mostly right but may need more checks.

you also said ect. like there are other things wrong, what are they? can you give examples?

also keyser i dont know. i dont remember your example that you gave but probably yes. the db is updated reasonably quickly when issues are found. it would be best to check not just assume its broken every time xD

regardless, spookys db currently has the most accurate dps calculations available.

Statistics: Posted by Exotic_Retard — 13 Jun 2018, 12:41

Re: Units Database

2018-06-13T08:30:49+02:00

Spooky calculations are still wrong all over the place. All beam weapons are calculated with the wrong firing cycle(9x instead of 11x,) sera destroyer torpedoes are wrong, zthuues are wrong(this we forgive because it's not a calculation error, it's a blueprint error,) etc.

Statistics: Posted by JoonasTo — 13 Jun 2018, 08:30

Re: Units Database

2018-06-13T04:14:00+02:00

exotic you fixed the example of wrong calculation in spooky i gave you last time?

Statistics: Posted by keyser — 13 Jun 2018, 04:14

Re: Units Database

2018-06-13T01:52:00+02:00

spooky db does it correctly, use that :>

http://spooky.github.io/unitdb/#/by-class

Statistics: Posted by Exotic_Retard — 13 Jun 2018, 01:52

Re: Units Database

2018-06-13T01:24:29+02:00

IceDreamer wrote:
The old DPS numbers were often wrong. Calculating them is really difficult to get right in some edge cases. I'm pretty sure it's being worked on, and should come at some point.

It's not actually all that hard, I've got an excel sheet that does almost everything right, anything I've tried anyway. There's probably something I've missed but it seems to cover most of the mechanics.

It goes something like this:

Code:: IF(Turreted=True;MuzzleCount;MuzzleSalvoSize)*IF(AND(RackFireTogether=True;MuzzleSalvoSize=1);RackCount;1)*IF(BeamLifetime>0;(Beamlifetime+0.1)/0.1;1)*IF(DotPulses>0;DotPulses;1)*Fragments*Damage/(IF((MuzzleSalvoSize-1)*MuzzleSalvoDelay>1/RateOfFire;(MuzzleSalvoSize-1)*MuzzleSalvoDelay;IF(MuzzleSalvoSize*MuzzleSalvoDelay>1/RateOfFire;MuzzleSalvoSize*MuzzleSalvoDelay;1/RateOfFire))+RackSalvoChargeTime+RackSalvoReloadTime) = DPS

Where Fragments is the only value not directly in the blueprint. To get that value you need to read the blueprint of the projectile of the weapon and get the local value for the number of child projectiles and add one to it(except for the zthuue, that has that line commented out,) then multiply with the child projectile blueprints local value for the number of child projectiles plus one and so forth until your loop ends at the last blueprint not referencing a new one anymore. I think Salvation is the longest at 3 iterations.

Statistics: Posted by JoonasTo — 13 Jun 2018, 01:24

Re: Units Database

2018-06-13T00:42:53+02:00

The old DPS numbers were often wrong. Calculating them is really difficult to get right in some edge cases. I'm pretty sure it's being worked on, and should come at some point.

Statistics: Posted by IceDreamer — 13 Jun 2018, 00:42

Units Database

2018-06-13T00:37:49+02:00

So i absolutely love the new changes to the unit database in the client, i just wish they kept the DPS statistic for each weapon. I thought it was really valuable for judging how powerful a unit was. Now there is only a 'damage' and 'rate of fire' statistic, which is good too, but not enough imo.

Statistics: Posted by pieguy — 13 Jun 2018, 00:37