Forged Alliance Forever

Re: New models for map creation

2018-11-08T14:33:44+02:00

Yes ok more carefully re-reading your post from February and considering the implications of loading blueprints from all map folders I can see how this mod isn't suitable for production use.

So I moved my custom props into a mod of its own, "TA Acid Worlds" as suggested earlier in this thread. It works in FA but the map is not loadable by the editor anymore cos the props path is wrong (I have to hex-edit the props' paths).

If a player forgets to download or activate the mod, the map still works, it just doesn't have my custom props.

Statistics: Posted by Axle — 08 Nov 2018, 14:33

Re: New models for map creation

2018-11-07T10:41:08+02:00

I didn't upload it into the vault cause I didn't want to for the reasons I mentioned in this thread.

+ it was just a test mod I made for ozonex

Statistics: Posted by speed2 — 07 Nov 2018, 10:41

Re: New models for map creation

2018-11-07T09:42:04+02:00

I can't believe no one bothered to upload speed2's mod to the vault yet. I just uploaded it now ("speed Testing mod Mk.II V1") and a new map that features custom props ("Gasplant Plain"). Yes that's right, Total Annihilation's original and best Gasplant Plain featuring 100% new and custom gas filled gas plants!

Statistics: Posted by Axle — 07 Nov 2018, 09:42

Re: New models for map creation

2018-03-12T23:55:21+02:00

speed2 wrote:
It doesn't recognize what bp it's loading until it's loaded. The code searches for all .bp files (this mod above adds /maps folder into the search as well) and runs the files.
The bp file contains function call, PropBlueprint, UnitBlueprint etc... I haven't played with it yet to find out if it's possible to filter only prop bps from the maps folder, it might be.

Anyway about adding new props into the game path should not be such a big problem. I dont think it's gonna be too much data, also there's new patching system being slowly implemented that would send only the changed things, so everyone will have to download it only once.

Let me see if I got this straight:

You add a new prop to the map editor, with it's blueprint.

Then you put said files in the map folder (But what about map versions like .v000x where x can be any number? Can the mod find it still?)

When you upload the map, the blueprints will be downloaded too then?
If so, then the mod makes the game read the blueprints, am I correct?

I want to know the process behind this so I can experiment too, cheers

Statistics: Posted by Holynanners — 12 Mar 2018, 23:55

Re: New models for map creation

2018-03-12T18:14:43+02:00

Yes, DDDX, it should be in the vault (you can download it at previous speed2 post). Maybe Speed2 can upload it. Anyway you can add a link to the mod in your map thread.

We need some pioneers map makers that start creating some maps with custom props. Then all map makers will follow. Interesting props and textures can be added to main ressources. The new patch system will allow to download only diff ressources what will be server bandwidth friendly.

The creative potential here is huge !

Statistics: Posted by Franck83 — 12 Mar 2018, 18:14

Re: New models for map creation

2018-03-11T21:32:07+02:00

Is this mod available in the Vault? Cannot find it, so I am guessing NO.
The way I see it (wrong?) - if the map has custom blueprints or props - they get ignored unless this mod is activated.
If this mod is activated - the game is no longer ranked.
No fear of cheating or disballance.

Problem solved, no? If it's not in the Vault, it should be. Or am I missing something? (probably

Statistics: Posted by DDDX — 11 Mar 2018, 21:32

Re: New models for map creation

2018-02-04T13:47:32+02:00

Jip wrote:
Franck83 wrote: So everybody can active this mod and will be able to test a custom props/texture map (performance...).

For mappers, you can already test everything.

Yes on the mapper side. But now, anyone can activate this mod, download maps data from map maker, and test the map !

If a lot of people love the props and/or the map, we just need to add it to official FAF map ressources and we can play without the mod. It's a crazy advance in promoting map with custom props, textures... !

Statistics: Posted by Franck83 — 04 Feb 2018, 13:47

Re: New models for map creation

2018-02-04T13:43:31+02:00

Ty a lot speed 2, that so fun !

Statistics: Posted by Franck83 — 04 Feb 2018, 13:43

Re: New models for map creation

2018-02-04T13:17:27+02:00

It doesn't recognize what bp it's loading until it's loaded. The code searches for all .bp files (this mod above adds /maps folder into the search as well) and runs the files.
The bp file contains function call, PropBlueprint, UnitBlueprint etc... I haven't played with it yet to find out if it's possible to filter only prop bps from the maps folder, it might be.

Anyway about adding new props into the game path should not be such a big problem. I dont think it's gonna be too much data, also there's new patching system being slowly implemented that would send only the changed things, so everyone will have to download it only once.

Statistics: Posted by speed2 — 04 Feb 2018, 13:17

Re: New models for map creation

2018-02-04T13:10:11+02:00

Franck83 wrote:
ozonex wrote:
Jip wrote:Or, an update of the LoadBlueprint function that accepts another argument (and is fed this argument too, when selecting a map): the path to the map folder. Then add in the part where it searches through those folders too. That would work too and make it local - allowing any props in.

We just tested that with Speed2 and it worked. But as Speed2 mentioned: "it would allow to sneak in any bp, including unit bp and that could be abused"

Nice to hear !

Can you speed2 provide us this feature as a small mod ? An 'Unlock Custom Map Ressource' Mod will be a cool tool for map makers and map beta testers.

So everybody can active this mod and will be able to test a custom props/texture map (performance...). Then if it's fun, we can add theses props to FAF so it will not need the mod anymore.

Statistics: Posted by speed2 — 04 Feb 2018, 13:10

Re: New models for map creation

2018-02-04T13:35:14+02:00

Franck83 wrote:
ozonex wrote:
Jip wrote:Or, an update of the LoadBlueprint function that accepts another argument (and is fed this argument too, when selecting a map): the path to the map folder. Then add in the part where it searches through those folders too. That would work too and make it local - allowing any props in.

We just tested that with Speed2 and it worked. But as Speed2 mentioned: "it would allow to sneak in any bp, including unit bp and that could be abused"

Nice to hear !

Can you speed2 provide us this feature as a small mod ? An 'Unlock Custom Map Ressource' Mod will be a cool tool for map makers and map beta testers.

So everybody can active this mod and will be able to test a custom props/texture map (performance...). Then if it's fun, we can add theses props to FAF so it will not need the mod anymore.

I am not sure whether this can be part of any mod - it would require an update (/new hook) of the LoadBlueprint function, which (as far as I am aware) cannot be changed through mods, because the function is being called before the mods are initiated. Meaning, it would require a FaF patch - but that is dangerous without knowing ([i]all of) the consequences.[/i] I stand corrected, see the post of Speed2 below.

Franck83 wrote:
So everybody can active this mod and will be able to test a custom props/texture map (performance...).

For mappers, you can already test everything. Just create a new .scd file (which is a .zip, just rename the extension) where your props are inside. Make sure it is structured the same way as the other .scd files that are related to your addition (for props - check environment.scd (env.scd)). Then put this .scd file into the gamedata folder of Supreme Commander FA and the regular Supreme Commander. From this point on, they can be placed through the (official) editor and be seen in game. But only you can see them - nobody else will be able because they lack the .scd file.

Statistics: Posted by Jip — 04 Feb 2018, 11:53

Re: New models for map creation

2018-02-04T11:41:31+02:00

ozonex wrote:
Jip wrote:Or, an update of the LoadBlueprint function that accepts another argument (and is fed this argument too, when selecting a map): the path to the map folder. Then add in the part where it searches through those folders too. That would work too and make it local - allowing any props in.

We just tested that with Speed2 and it worked. But as Speed2 mentioned: "it would allow to sneak in any bp, including unit bp and that could be abused"

I'm not entirely sure about this. As long as only the blueprints of the current map are loaded, it should not be an issue. Because if I have different blueprint files than my opponent, wouldn't that cause a desync? And hence, make the error (the cheating) visible to everyone? I am not sure about this, however.

ozonex wrote:
Allowing for custom blueprints to work on map will allow for many custom map behaviors. It sounds powerful, but such map cant be ranked and there is no good way to check if map has such custom things. Someone will add just some nice looking rocks, where someone other may add big gun at center of map that shoot nukes at everything

True, it can be different for everyone. I'm not sure how the internals of FaF work, but if it's possible to detect that there are (any) blueprints within the map folder (at the lobby or during uploading), you can mark the map internally as unranked as an automatic feature.

Either way, I am not exactly sure whether this is possible and I don't want to give people false hopes.

ozonex wrote:
Adding prop files to FAF update will be server killer. Everyone will need to download all of them every time something is changed/added. Textures and models are quite heavy. Also who will decide of which props are good for FAF?

in that case, perhaps make this a 'seperate' update? Something that is also required for FaF, but once installed, will not be installed again. Perhaps even store these files on a different server? Something from google, like Google Drive, or from a Dropbox? Again, I am not sure whether this is possible within the framework of FaF.

About the question who will decide - we as a community will! As long as we don't kill the servers with this, we can add as many quality props (and textures) as we want. Then people can decide for themselves whether they want to use them or not. We could even make a contest about it. This would be the most open version of 'what do you, the community, want to see?'.

Either way, for everyone who's reading this: all what I said above may be quite difficult to implement. Keep that in mind before you start asking about when this gets implemented, as Ozonex said, it may never be. These are just concepts right now.

Statistics: Posted by Jip — 04 Feb 2018, 11:41

Re: New models for map creation

2018-02-02T13:30:04+02:00

Ty a lot for your work ozonex, it's a key part of unlocking quality content for map creation.

Allowing for blueprints in maps will force to make all maps unranked and then verify if map can be ranked.

Adding prop files to FAF update will be server killer. Everyone will need to download all of them every time something is changed/added. Textures and models are quite heavy. Also who will decide of which props are good for FAF ?

Best will be to load only PropBlueprints from map folder, but this may not be possible.

Let us try to think in solution...

Maybe the dev team can find something to secure here ?

About ranking : can we desactivate the mod to rank a match ? There is no problem if map ressources are added to FAF, no ? I'm not sure to understand why all map would be unranked if the mod is desactivated. Can we have a precise answer on this (props are already part of FAF ressources...so ?) ?

About ressources usage : we must admit that is unrealistic to increase map ressources at no size price. Most games are over 25go size today. But we need to do it smartly. Why not a Map Ressources Councillor or a Map Ressources Councillor team or maybe this can fall in speed2 scope ! Passionate map makers that are accurate to check props models efficiency and to propose a map to be ranked.

Everybody agree that map making is a survival feature for FAF, no ? Custom props will skyrocket map creation to another level.

Hope we can find some cool solutions here.

Statistics: Posted by Franck83 — 02 Feb 2018, 13:30

Re: New models for map creation

2018-02-02T12:30:42+02:00

Franck83 wrote:
Not a problem in the map beta phase. Is it still a matter when props are added to FAF and the mod desactivated ?

We are not even sure if it will be ever added.

Allowing for blueprints in maps will force to make all maps unranked and then verify if map can be ranked.

Adding prop files to FAF update will be server killer. Everyone will need to download all of them every time something is changed/added. Textures and models are quite heavy. Also who will decide of which props are good for FAF?

Best will be to load only PropBlueprints from map folder, but this may not be possible.

Statistics: Posted by ozonex — 02 Feb 2018, 12:30

Re: New models for map creation

2018-02-02T12:14:57+02:00

ozonex wrote:
Franck83 wrote:... to test a custom propos/texture map...

Allowing for custom blueprints to work on map will allow for many custom map behaviors. It sounds powerful, but such map cant be ranked and there is no good way to check if map has such custom things. Someone will add just some nice looking rocks, where someone other may add big gun at center of map that shoot nukes at everything.

Not a problem in the map beta phase. Is it still a matter when props are added to FAF and the mod desactivated ?

Statistics: Posted by Franck83 — 02 Feb 2018, 12:14