Forged Alliance Forever

Re: Transport loading

2016-03-11T12:26:39+02:00

I thought the same splitting into groups would work. Somehow while testing a bit i noticed that the loading function is bugged in game. If you select for example 10 t1 arti and 3 t2 transport planes then press u and click somewhere -> one transport plane is loading and despite an unload order does not move anymore, two planes simply fly away emty and units not loaded simply run to the place where they should be loaded and create a blob of units bumping agaisnt each other. It shows that the game atm cant split the units correct. This command does not work when more than one plane is selected .... Problem appears because there are no "load" and unload buttons. It is the same button. In fact it is only an unload button which includes somehow loading partly but not correct. You can right click a plane with a unit or a unit with a plane but there is no button command in the game for this like -> select 1 unit and 1 plane -> press 1 button and the unit will be loaded.

Since in the beta ferry is replaced with a marker like function would be great if you can add the ferry "marker" next to the markers and use the free button slot in the units for introducing a load button which clearly is for loading units only and is able to split them if you selected several transports and land units. To spread them equally thats already luxury but even the basic function is not in the game

An additional advantage is that you can even while not having a trans plane create ferry routes while beeing idle.

Statistics: Posted by Iszh — 11 Mar 2016, 12:26

Re: Transport loading

2016-03-10T23:14:23+02:00

Ok to give a longer explanation. The only way to do it is via the same mechanism as washy autobomber mods and because of this, he got me to agree not to actually make the transport mod because it would publish the mechanism and teach other modders how to be bastards. So, it needs to be integrated instead.

Re my mod, its just part of the ui party mod... select a hundred units and hit the key to split into ten groups (which you will need to bind) and it intelligently decides which units go in which group. Then you can switch through the groups quickly using a different key (which you will need to bind).

At the moment the mod has a million uses (eg sending 10 scouts in 10 directions) but one I used is to load transports. I get 10 bricks, split into 5 groups, then quickly load them into transports manually ... so I have to 1x (split button) and 5x(press switch button then click transport). It works fine but normally my problem is not knowing which transports haven't been loaded yet... which ones to click on.

Statistics: Posted by nine2 — 10 Mar 2016, 23:14

Re: Transport loading

2016-03-10T14:16:12+02:00

Washy Autoplay UI Mods (tm)

Statistics: Posted by TheKoopa — 10 Mar 2016, 14:16

Re: Transport loading

2016-03-10T14:13:58+02:00

Anihilnine wrote:
Ui mod won't cut it because ui mod can't issue orders

im pretty sure washy's bomber mod would disagree : )
inb4 im horribly wrong as usual

Statistics: Posted by Exotic_Retard — 10 Mar 2016, 14:13

Re: Transport loading

2016-03-10T13:23:01+02:00

is it in the vault?

Statistics: Posted by Lionhardt — 10 Mar 2016, 13:23

Re: Transport loading

2016-03-10T13:19:49+02:00

I have code that divides any army into N logical groups, taking into account unit importance (highest mass first) and position. All that is needed it the extra bit to actually issue the load order. And to integrate it

Statistics: Posted by nine2 — 10 Mar 2016, 13:19

Re: Transport loading

2016-03-10T13:17:33+02:00

I went to make this mod once, until I realized it needs to be integrated into faf - Ui mod won't cut it because ui mod can't issue orders

Statistics: Posted by nine2 — 10 Mar 2016, 13:17

Re: Transport loading

2016-03-10T04:08:41+02:00

Bu not in the situation Iszh is describing. Therefore he proposed an option for this alternate loading scheme. And this scenario does happen fairly frequently in longer games like FFAs.

Statistics: Posted by Lionhardt — 10 Mar 2016, 04:08

Re: Transport loading

2016-03-10T03:41:17+02:00

Well transports aren't cheap and I'd rather them load fully and leave transports empty than have 4/6 slots filled on every trans.

Statistics: Posted by JaggedAppliance — 10 Mar 2016, 03:41

Re: Transport loading

2016-03-10T03:05:13+02:00

Your described method though does also not spread the units evenly across ALL available transport slots, does it?

So if we have 3 transport with 6 slots each:

[0|0|0|0|0|0]

[0|0|0|0|0|0]

[0|0|0|0|0|0]

and 15 units (1 x is 1 unit):

xxxxx
xxxxx
xxxxx

then we want:

[x|x|x|x|x|0]

[x|x|x|x|x|0]

[x|x|x|x|x|0]

and not

[x|x|x|x|x|x]

[x|x|x|x|x|x]

[x|x|x|0|0|0]

Statistics: Posted by Lionhardt — 10 Mar 2016, 03:05

Re: Transport loading

2016-03-10T02:46:11+02:00

currently you can do the following:

select all your units; shift click all the transport.
the units will load onto the transports in order, and when one is full go to the next.
the problem is its really slow because the units only carry out the next order after they bump the transport.

the game knows which units will fit onto the trans, as it says "transport is full" as soon as you give the order.

what would be great is if units' orders would be cancelled to fill if they cant fit on that transport.
this would make loading onto multiple and single trans much easier and nicer looking as well.

the problem would happen if a unit dies on the way to a transport. this is probably why they work like they do now. its an edge case but its still a thing.
two ways to go about this:
- only cancel load order if there is another load order in the queue (most likely very hard to do)
- or just ignore it and say if you want to move through dangerous area then you should queue a move order next to the trans then a load order.

hope this helps

Statistics: Posted by Exotic_Retard — 10 Mar 2016, 02:46

Re: Transport loading

2016-03-11T17:50:20+02:00

Ferries do not solve this. What Iszh is saying is:

You have a set of transports transports T. The sum of all slots of all transports in T = t. You have a set of u units U. All units in U take up u slots. Also t > u. Now you want to spread U across T such that all transports in T carry at least one unit and also there is no transport that could carry an additional unit while there is a transport that carries more than the average units carried per transport.

This gets more complicated with different transport sizes and different units types (that take up differing numbers of slots) but basically it's this:

Code:: # assume each unit takes up 1 slot # assume each transport has the same number of slots from collections import deque units = deque([0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9]) transports = [[],[],[]] ########################################################### def load(transport, units): transport.append(units.popleft()) done = False while not(done): for t in transports: if not(len(units) == 0): load(t, units) else: done = True ########################################################### for t in transports: print t ########################################################### # Output: # [0,3,6,9] # [1,4,7] # [2,5,8] # what normally happens: # [0,3,6,9] # [1,4,7,2] # [5,8]

So, normally transports get filled up completely. You end up with completely full transports, possibly one half full one and a bunch of empty transports. That sucks, because transports are cheap and unis are expensive. You want to lose as few units as possible per transport shot down. Therefore you want to spread the load evenly.

Statistics: Posted by Lionhardt — 10 Mar 2016, 01:51

Re: Transport loading

2016-03-01T18:03:27+02:00

you can just select both units & transports and use the unload order on ground (UI button or hotkey works)

you can also send units on their way and set transport to assist units, dunno how well that works tho

off the top of my head

EDIT: or just use ferries lol

Statistics: Posted by mirroredwang — 01 Mar 2016, 18:03

Transport loading

2016-02-24T13:00:13+02:00

I ve recently asked in aeolus if it is possible to make an ui mod for loading planes. My problem was i want to transfer an army from a to b maybe in the middle of heavy air defense and i expect half of the planes to be shot. I took 30 percivals and loaded manual 3 in each plane. Would be nice if i can select 10 continentals and 30 percivals and then press a button and the mod is autospreading equal to the transport planes. THat would improve for uef especially deadly percival snipes which are nearly impossible atm since you can micro 10 minutes your percivals in the planes. I tested in sandbox that for the mass of a czar or beetle you could easily create a deadly drop snipe with uef. I landed those 30 percivals in the middle of a heavy base with lots of shields point defenses and sams. I used 7 spread sams. The shields and the t3 acu died so fast that not even a koloss would have saved this acu. But to enable such a tactic you need better loading features.

I cant program it but i imagine it could be possible to check tech levels of planes and land units and then calculate the average needed space if spread. if this is to complicated maybe a special marker would be nice to introduce. A marker like the start point of a ferry route where you can sent planes for assist and units to load but without unloading them automatically just for creating big drops.

Statistics: Posted by Iszh — 24 Feb 2016, 13:00