Forged Alliance Forever

Re: BlackOps ACUs : full weapon upgrade

2019-02-12T22:13:41+02:00

Hello ExavierMacbeth,

nice to see you here

If you want to see what we have changed, simply follow Icedreamers git Hub page for BO:
https://github.com/aeoncleanse/Mods/pulls?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=is%3Apr

Greetings, Uveso.

PS: Thank's for this great mod !

Statistics: Posted by Uveso — 12 Feb 2019, 22:13

Re: BlackOps ACUs : full weapon upgrade

2019-02-12T19:17:34+02:00

Nice to see my project still being updated by the FAF Teams. I am still always surprised every year when I poke my nose here to see if the community is still alive

For those curious about the history of these weapons, the last GPG version of the game I ever did balance/updates for had a very bad glitch when it came to the continuous beam calculations. Since our mods don't fix core game bugs we worked around it by amping up the damage & running alot of sim tests to get acceptably comparable performance. I expect that the FAF Team's core game patches probobly fixed that bug at some point which would cause the weapon to be overpowered until fixed.

Thanks for keeping my toys alive.
Almost tempted to pull the archive copies of my last release version and compare code to see how much you guys have modified my original work. Yes I kept everything even now (including the old balance spreadsheets I used). Sort of a data packrat

Statistics: Posted by ExavierMacbeth — 12 Feb 2019, 19:17

Re: BlackOps ACUs : full weapon upgrade

2019-02-04T00:22:24+02:00

Hello CybranLord,

thank's for reporting this.

This was caused by destructive hooked blueprints.
Normaly they will be merged into the original blueprint, but in this case they overwrite the original one.
Fixed in the the next update.

Statistics: Posted by Uveso — 04 Feb 2019, 00:22

Re: BlackOps ACUs : full weapon upgrade

2019-02-03T22:55:30+02:00

Hello,
I have made some tests with the new Blackops mods (V18) and I think there are some issues with the veterancy left for some Experimentals : it seems that the vanilla Experimentals which were modified by the Blackops Mods (probably the Unleashed one) need 200% mass value to gain a veterancy level, instead of the usual 50%. So far I have :
- Aeon Tempest (rewritten to have attack drones) : mass value : 31500, mass for veterancy : 63000
- Aeon CZAR (rewritten to have Planet Cleasing mode ) : mass value : 45000, mass for veterancy : 90000

Statistics: Posted by CybranLord — 03 Feb 2019, 22:55

Re: BlackOps ACUs : full weapon upgrade

2019-02-01T12:45:46+02:00

Black Ops V18 released.

For more Info (and changelog) read:
http://forums.faforever.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=17162 ACU
http://forums.faforever.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=17161 Unleashed
http://forums.faforever.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=17160 Special Weapons

Statistics: Posted by Uveso — 01 Feb 2019, 12:45

Re: BlackOps ACUs : full weapon upgrade

2019-01-27T18:49:43+02:00

I have begin some testings but not that much (I am sick ...) and so far, no game-breaking issues.

I just noted some descriptions for the Aeon ACU Phazon Beam upgrade to correct with the new damage values but it is very minor.

Statistics: Posted by CybranLord — 27 Jan 2019, 18:49

Re: BlackOps ACUs : full weapon upgrade

2019-01-22T22:11:53+02:00

Thank's a lot!

Statistics: Posted by Uveso — 22 Jan 2019, 22:11

Re: BlackOps ACUs : full weapon upgrade

2019-01-22T19:07:57+02:00

My thanks, I will test it when I have time.

Statistics: Posted by CybranLord — 22 Jan 2019, 19:07

Re: BlackOps ACUs : full weapon upgrade

2019-01-21T23:23:54+02:00

Hello CybranLord,

Phason beam II damage is changed from 140 to 110
Phason beam III damage is changed from 630 to 360 (looks like swapped digits in the frist place ?!?)
BuildCostEnergy = 625000
BuildCostMass = 6300
BuildTime = 21600,

ACU buildcost is now for all 4 ACU's:
BuildCostEnergy = 350000
BuildCostMass = 2500
BuildTime = 18000

There are also some bugfixes for seraphim ACU cloak if controlled by AI,
and also a patch for the AI Omni View.

Only for testing, don't go online with this version, it will desync instantly!
http://faforever.uveso.de/forum/BlackOpsFAF-ACUs-v17.1.zip

Please report if you find any more issues with the ACU mod.

Statistics: Posted by Uveso — 21 Jan 2019, 23:23

Re: BlackOps ACUs : full weapon upgrade

2019-01-07T21:46:59+02:00

Hello Uveso,
for the Phazon Beam, I suggest to reduce the DPS from :

Code:: Aeon Phason Beam : Damage : 20 (initial), 140 (upgrade 1), 630 (final upgrade) ROF : 10 Max Range : 35 (initial), 40 (upgrade 1 and final upgrade) DamageRadius = 1 (initial and upgrade 1), 2 (final upgrade) -> 6300 DPS when full upgraded

To something like this :

Code:: Aeon Phason Beam : Damage : 20 (initial), 70 (upgrade 1), 280-350 (final upgrade) ROF : 10 Max Range : 35 (initial), 40 (upgrade 1 and final upgrade) DamageRadius = 1 (initial and upgrade 1), 2 (final upgrade) -> 2800-3500 DPS when full upgraded

It follows the same logic as the Cybran Mazer (multiply the DPS by 3.5 for the first upgrade and then by 4-5 for the last one, I am not sure about the exact DPS but I still want to have the Aeon Upgrade be powerful), it has around the same DPS as the others options and it is still the most powerful one for compensating the lack of a real weapon of the Aeon Combat Engineering Upgrade.

But with that in mind, I think the upgrade must cost at least the same price as the Cybran one as it is still the most powerful (DPS, damage radius and range wise). So from :

Code:: Aeon : BuildCostEnergy = 525000 -> 900000 BuildCostMass = 4500 -> 6300 BuildTime = 18000 -> 21600

For the veterancy, Ok for reducing its mass cost then to align with the other mods. I have suggested earlier to reduce the mass cost of the ACUs for them to gain a level at around half its mass cost, so 9K-10K mass killed per level, maybe it is a little too much. But I still maintain that a veterancy level for an ACU must be earned and the BlackOps' ACUs can do that easily with the upgrades + Overcharges, so it must not be too low. Actually for non-BlackOps' ACUs it is 4k mass per level if I am correct and I think for BlackOps' ACUs, it must be at minimum 5K mass per level.

Also for the veterancy for the BlackOps mod in general, specifically for the Experimentals Units it provides, they need to destroy 200% of their own worth in mass instead of 50% like the base game Experimentals. Can you take a look why it is like this ?

Thanks a lot for reading me.

Statistics: Posted by CybranLord — 07 Jan 2019, 21:46

Re: BlackOps ACUs : full weapon upgrade

2019-01-06T20:33:35+02:00

Hello CybranLord,

yes i guess its a good idea to make the Phazon a bit weaker.
Mabye we will also adjust the price.

And yes, we should set the buildcost the same then the original ACU's have. Maybe more, but only a bit.

At the moment i am really bussy and we are changing some admin stuff in the background.
I will start to work on this next week.

You could do me a favor and think about some values we can set.

-What should be the exact DPS of the phazon weapon, and why ?
-Same with buildcost.
-Buildcost for the ACU. Should be respect the veterancy system and new mods, where you can build ACU's in special factories. (those mods are actual in developing!)
We can't change (or at least i won't) change the vetrancy system, so we need to fix this with the ACU mass cost value.
-Any other tip/hint/bugfix you have in mind ?
I plan an update for BO-ACU and Unleashed in 2-3 weeks, please report everything you have in mind, so we can fix it for the next patch.

Statistics: Posted by Uveso — 06 Jan 2019, 20:33

Re: BlackOps ACUs : full weapon upgrade

2019-01-01T16:52:19+02:00

Hello and Happy New Year.

I think my first suggestion for balancing the Phason Beam for the Aeon ACU is to either :
1) tone down the last Phazon Beam upgrade to have similar DPS than the others ACUs (around 2500-3000). It still can be higher than the rest but I think it can be toned down, especially with its actual price.
2) adjusting the upgrade price, this weapon is cheaper/has the same cost (mass/energy/time) than the others but is too far superior than its others factions' equivalents (cf statistics above).
3) doing both of my suggestions.

For this suggestion, I will examine all ACUs first before posting the ticket (I can be biased so I prefer to have a true global view of the mod before).

I have another suggestion in mind (far more general for this one) for the veterancy of the ACUs with this mod. As from FAF patch 3688, the veterancy system has changed to a mass killed system and the ACUs cost were changed to facilitate thier promotions. But for this mod, the ACUs cost stayed the same :

Code:: BuildCostEnergy = 5000000, BuildCostMass = 18000, BuildRate = 10, BuildTime = 60000,

And they need 200% of their mass worth to gain a veterancy level, making them nearly impossible to promote. I suggest to tone down to 50% of their mass worth (like all non-modded Experimentals) and leaving their cost as they are (BlackOps ACUs are still very powerful so their high costs are still justified for me).

For this suggestion however, I have submitted the ticket.

Statistics: Posted by CybranLord — 01 Jan 2019, 16:52

Re: BlackOps ACUs : full weapon upgrade

2018-12-31T23:14:40+02:00

If you have any suggestions for changes/balancing, just post it here or make an issue on git Hub:
https://github.com/aeoncleanse/Mods/issues

Statistics: Posted by Uveso — 31 Dec 2018, 23:14

Re: BlackOps ACUs : full weapon upgrade

2018-12-30T23:39:03+02:00

Thanks for your tooltip. I will check the DPS of all weapons when I have time and I will post every value for every weapons here.

Statistics: Posted by CybranLord — 30 Dec 2018, 23:39

Re: BlackOps ACUs : full weapon upgrade

2018-12-30T19:49:57+02:00

Ah, you are a coder

Here is a function for all weapons and how to calculate the DPS:
(With debug print to the log window/file)

Code:: function GetWeaponDPS(bp,weapon) local DPS = {} DPS.Damage = 0 DPS.RateOfFire = 0 DPS.DPS = 0 -- enable debug text local bugtext = false local WeaponEco = __blueprints[weapon.ProjectileId].Economy or nil if WeaponEco and bp.Economy.BuildRate > 1 and WeaponEco.BuildTime > 1 and (WeaponEco.BuildCostEnergy > 1 or WeaponEco.BuildCostMass > 1) then if bugtext == true then LOG(' BuildTime') end local MuzzleSalvoSize = weapon.MuzzleSalvoSize or 1 DPS.RateOfFire = 1 / (__blueprints[weapon.ProjectileId].Economy.BuildTime / bp.Economy.BuildRate) if weapon.NukeInnerRingDamage > 0 then DPS.Damage = weapon.NukeInnerRingDamage + weapon.NukeOuterRingDamage else DPS.Damage = weapon.Damage * MuzzleSalvoSize end elseif weapon.DoTPulses then if bugtext == true then LOG(' DoTPulses') end DPS.RateOfFire = 1 / (math.round(10/weapon.RateOfFire) / 10) DPS.Damage = weapon.Damage * weapon.MuzzleSalvoSize * weapon.DoTPulses elseif weapon.ContinuousBeam then -- ual0401 if bugtext == true then LOG(' Continuous Beam') end --LOG(' weapon.BeamCollisionDelay='..weapon.BeamCollisionDelay) local temp = weapon.BeamCollisionDelay == 0 and 1 or weapon.BeamCollisionDelay --LOG(' temp='..temp) DPS.RateOfFire = 1 / (weapon.BeamCollisionDelay == 0 and 1 or weapon.BeamCollisionDelay) DPS.Damage = weapon.Damage * 10 elseif (weapon.BeamLifetime and weapon.BeamLifetime > 0) then -- xsb2301 xea0002 if bugtext == true then LOG(' Pulse Beam') end local BeamCollisionDelay = weapon.BeamCollisionDelay or 0 local BeamLifetime = weapon.BeamLifetime or 1 if BeamLifetime > 5 then BeamLifetime = 5 end DPS.RateOfFire = 1 / (math.round(10/weapon.RateOfFire) / 10) DPS.Damage = weapon.Damage * BeamLifetime * 10 elseif (weapon.RackSalvoReloadTime and weapon.RackSalvoReloadTime > 0) and not weapon.RackSalvoFiresAfterCharge then if bugtext == true then LOG(' Salvos') end -- Salvos don't use weapon.RateOfFire DPS.RateOfFire = 1 / ((weapon.MuzzleSalvoSize * weapon.MuzzleSalvoDelay + weapon.RackSalvoReloadTime)) DPS.Damage = weapon.Damage * weapon.MuzzleSalvoSize else -- ueb2101 if bugtext == true then LOG(' One Shot') end local ProjectilesPerOnFire = weapon.ProjectilesPerOnFire or 1 local AttackGroundTries = weapon.AttackGroundTries or 1 local MuzzleSalvoSize = weapon.MuzzleSalvoSize or 1 -- don't use ProjectilesPerOnFire if MuzzleSalvoSize is present. if MuzzleSalvoSize > 1 and ProjectilesPerOnFire > 1 then if MuzzleSalvoSize ~= ProjectilesPerOnFire then WARN('unit ['..bp.BlueprintId..'] has wrong ProjectilesPerOnFire in Weapon ['..weapon.DisplayName..']') end ProjectilesPerOnFire = 1 end DPS.RateOfFire = 1 / (math.round(10/weapon.RateOfFire) / 10) DPS.Damage = weapon.Damage * MuzzleSalvoSize * ProjectilesPerOnFire end if DPS.RateOfFire == 0 then DPS.RateOfFire = 1 end --LOG(' Damage: '..DPS.Damage..' - RateOfFire: '..DPS.RateOfFire..' - new DPS: '..(DPS.Damage*DPS.RateOfFire)) DPS.DPS = DPS.Damage*DPS.RateOfFire return DPS end

This function is included inside my (private) tooltip mod:
(the mod can also display all ACU weapons)
http://faforever.uveso.de/forum/SmartUnitTooltipV2.zip
(Needs option "Show Armament Build in Factory Menu" enabled)

This mod also displays the original FAF game calculation and Hussars calculation from the unit manager.
You will see that all 3 DPS values from the different sources almost have the same dps.

But you can't calculate all weapons correctly because you don't have all needed date inside the unit blueprints.
There are some weapons with racks or multiple shoots that can't be calculated without a helper-variable added to the unitblueprint.

Statistics: Posted by Uveso — 30 Dec 2018, 19:49