Forged Alliance Forever Forged Alliance Forever Forums 2019-03-18T02:18:56+02:00 /feed.php?f=2&t=17305 2019-03-18T02:18:56+02:00 2019-03-18T02:18:56+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=17305&p=172812#p172812 <![CDATA[Re: Inquiry to the moderation team]]>
Hi all.

On the 14th I became the mod councillor. Unfortunately the former councillor (Voodoo) took the decision to step down due to a lack of time. He will remain as a standard moderator.

As you may know, slack is used as a tool for communication and coordination among developers on FAF.

A decision was made to remove certain members from slack.

However, there were several problems with this decision, namely that slack was barely moderated before, and therefore was applying double standards. Also, in any case, no code of conduct was formed on slack.

This was a mistake, and should not have happened.

My first action as councillor was therefore to revoke these deactivations, and so now I would like to apologise to the users affected by this. I would also like to apologise for the length of time it took for this message.


Gorton

Statistics: Posted by Gorton — 18 Mar 2019, 02:18


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2019-03-13T23:14:04+02:00 2019-03-13T23:14:04+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=17305&p=172731#p172731 <![CDATA[Re: Inquiry to the moderation team]]>

and i dont have the shittest idea who you are


On the other hand, there are these people that i have known for a long time and seen what they're actually up to. [...], ftx boi (just read above),



If anything, ftx has done more than all previous PC AND devs combined

Those 3 are a contradiction.


And maybe do your research and try to find out what devs have actually been doing before attacking them and saying we're responsible for everything bad that has happened to FAF:

Just someone who calls himself dev on an angry rampage proving that his worth to the community is much higher than any other individual. The f*** have you done? No idea, but maybe if you were bothered to crawl from under your rock (read: slack), i would have known better. Sounds harsh, yeah, but point at any other dev out there and i can repeat it word for word. And honestly, i only have negative memories regarding how you devs handled FAF. Things like constantly breaking or malfunctioning replay or mod vault, some major server switch fuckup that lasted for weeks, map upload that was plain disposed of cause it got broken too. Its all the player convenience things, and they were never treated to before community complained about them for various periods of time. And then there was ladder (one of the most vocal topics), which after zep's departure was reduced to deciding a number of maps in the pool. I do remember TA saying he was being powerless and it ultimately coming down to noone being able / willing to code stuff for ladder. Oh and the fabled anti-repetition code, that i shit you not was stated done and waiting the implementation by Sheeo to me personally like 2 years ago when i inquired about it, only being implemented now. 4 fucking Head xD


This is what has been driving me and other devs out of FAF, the constant debate, the constant hate, the constant need to defend oneself. Shouldn't we just work together and improve FAF?

I'll stop replying to this thread now aswell, I didn't want to attack anyone or pick any side, I actually tried to stay out of this thread on purpose as I had a heated argument with biass on discord before all of this happened (which I wasn't involved in!) but felt the need to reply over being attacked with a lot of "quote mined", one sided, out of context screenshots.

Statistics: Posted by Geosearchef — 13 Mar 2019, 23:14


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2019-03-13T23:02:05+02:00 2019-03-13T23:02:05+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=17305&p=172729#p172729 <![CDATA[Re: Inquiry to the moderation team]]>
  • I do value the contributions from Petric for e.g. fixing QAI bugs.
  • I value Moraxx or biass or anybody else working on maps and mods.
  • I value tournament directors for putting a lot of effort in creating room for high-quality gameplay footage.
  • I also value high ranked players for playing awesome games and caster&streamers for commenting them.
  • I also value low ranked players for playing the game or I wouldn't have opponents in my league.

You don't have to write code to be an important gear. This community relies on all of these diverse roles (and no I did not mention all of them). Just because I was not able to support somebody's desires regarding maps changes, game changes or whatsoever does not mean that I do not care about it.

But do we really need to constantly blame, provoke, flame and attack each other? This could be such a nice place if people could sometimes just stop, take a few deep breaths and think about their counterparts motivations.

Life is to short to spend my time with all of the hate, and as such I will not take part in this discussion any further.

Just wanted to let you know that the topic was raised in the council as ftx mentioned, but it is not so easy to get us all aligned very fast. I promise you there will be some more official communication on this specific Slack topic in the next days.

Statistics: Posted by Brutus5000 — 13 Mar 2019, 23:02


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2019-03-13T22:52:59+02:00 2019-03-13T22:52:59+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=17305&p=172728#p172728 <![CDATA[Re: Inquiry to the moderation team]]>
Geosearchef wrote:
Hi Player Councillor, if you want to point at your democratic confirmation, you were elected by a small minority of FAF players, most of the people not involved into FAF and just playing (the 99% I was talking about) not even realizing there was an election and therefore are obviously biased towards one side on this question.

Haha, its almost like you're implying that the elections were unjust and unfair :roll:

If anything, ftx has done more than all previous PC AND devs combined (maybe counting out zep) for this community. Honestly, all the appeals to devs being the pillars that FAF are standing on are soooo much misguided. Like, im just an ordinary player and an active community member (in the past), and i dont have the shittest idea who you are. Just someone who calls himself dev on an angry rampage proving that his worth to the community is much higher than any other individual. The f*** have you done? No idea, but maybe if you were bothered to crawl from under your rock (read: slack), i would have known better. Sounds harsh, yeah, but point at any other dev out there and i can repeat it word for word. And honestly, i only have negative memories regarding how you devs handled FAF. Things like constantly breaking or malfunctioning replay or mod vault, some major server switch fuckup that lasted for weeks, map upload that was plain disposed of cause it got broken too. Its all the player convenience things, and they were never treated to before community complained about them for various periods of time. And then there was ladder (one of the most vocal topics), which after zep's departure was reduced to deciding a number of maps in the pool. I do remember TA saying he was being powerless and it ultimately coming down to noone being able / willing to code stuff for ladder. Oh and the fabled anti-repetition code, that i shit you not was stated done and waiting the implementation by Sheeo to me personally like 2 years ago when i inquired about it, only being implemented now. 4 fucking Head xD

On the other hand, there are these people that i have known for a long time and seen what they're actually up to. Petric doing balance and ladder stuff, biass doing maps and managing the m&m discord, ftx boi (just read above), farms... well, maybe there's someone else than can speak for him better than me xD They're cool people and they've shown their worth with their actions. And they're staying open to the community too, unlike some shady dudes that shut themselves in doing only what they want, and demanding respect;

Anyway, my point is: cut with the "who's worth more" bullshit already. All the attemps to put some party higher than the other in this thread look fucking pathetic. The whole topic is not even about devs, lol. Its about moderation.


PS and for the special people that will inevitably come and nitpick on me. I wasnt replying exactly to the quoted post, but more to the general mood of this thread.

Statistics: Posted by Mad`Mozart — 13 Mar 2019, 22:52


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2019-03-13T22:51:55+02:00 2019-03-13T22:51:55+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=17305&p=172727#p172727 <![CDATA[Re: Inquiry to the moderation team]]>

I'll simply add that I have not had a finger in this decision, nor do I plan to involve myself with it, despite my being mentioned by multiple people here. This is a matter for the moderation team and I'm not happy we've had to involve the rest of the council at all.

Statistics: Posted by Sheeo — 13 Mar 2019, 22:51


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2019-03-13T22:49:57+02:00 2019-03-13T22:49:57+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=17305&p=172726#p172726 <![CDATA[Re: Inquiry to the moderation team]]>
Geosearchef wrote:
Hi Player Councillor, if you want to point at your democratic confirmation, you were elected by a small minority of FAF players, most of the people not involved into FAF and just playing (the 99% I was talking about) not even realizing there was an election and therefore are obviously biased towards one side on this question.


I’m sure if you asked the 99% they absolutely do not care or actually in fact are pissed at the devs for removing features like gw and team matchmaker. Everyone on FAF overestimates their importance. As though the generic 600 of the playerbase who logs in to play a weekend AI game would notice all devs left FAF until nothing was heard from them for two years. The people that don’t care to participate or read one minutae of faf info would more than likely just shrug their shoulders and move to Steam.

Statistics: Posted by FtXCommando — 13 Mar 2019, 22:49


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2019-03-13T22:49:20+02:00 2019-03-13T22:49:20+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=17305&p=172725#p172725 <![CDATA[Re: Inquiry to the moderation team]]> Statistics: Posted by Ze Dogfather — 13 Mar 2019, 22:49


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2019-03-13T22:10:34+02:00 2019-03-13T22:10:34+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=17305&p=172724#p172724 <![CDATA[Re: Inquiry to the moderation team]]>
Endranii wrote:
Speak for yourself Mr.Developer. How do you know why they are playing on faf? Did you ask them? Did you even try communicating with them? Guess not, cuz the people I know play faf for it's balance not some magical code that makes it run better than steam version which is more than playable if not for the retarded balance. But hey, you be you, me be me.

:roll: yeah faf is just played for its balance ... Stop trying

Statistics: Posted by Yolo- — 13 Mar 2019, 22:10


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2019-03-13T21:40:00+02:00 2019-03-13T21:40:00+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=17305&p=172723#p172723 <![CDATA[Re: Inquiry to the moderation team]]> Statistics: Posted by Endranii — 13 Mar 2019, 21:40


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2019-03-13T21:28:43+02:00 2019-03-13T21:28:43+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=17305&p=172722#p172722 <![CDATA[Re: Inquiry to the moderation team]]> Statistics: Posted by Geosearchef — 13 Mar 2019, 21:28


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2019-03-13T20:47:50+02:00 2019-03-13T20:47:50+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=17305&p=172720#p172720 <![CDATA[Re: Inquiry to the moderation team]]>
Thanks to devs deciding what players need and care about, I’ve decided my position is entirely redundant and have decided to present the possibility of a third DevOps Councillor (that isn’t gonna be elected, don’t be ridiculous) replacing me.

Also Blodir, if anything that sentence is satire pointed towards those that whiteknight devs (and generally any group on FAF, find it silly regardless) for no real reason at all. Not sure how you read that as me disrespecting devs.

Statistics: Posted by FtXCommando — 13 Mar 2019, 20:47


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2019-03-13T20:25:21+02:00 2019-03-13T20:25:21+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=17305&p=172719#p172719 <![CDATA[Re: Inquiry to the moderation team]]>
You aswell, please stop posting single quotes out of context.
This is not about disrespecting trainers. This is simply stating the fact that 99 % of FAF's players don't care about trainers and just wanna play a game, they care more about client fixes, connection issues and game crashes cause they simply want to play with their friends.

Statistics: Posted by Geosearchef — 13 Mar 2019, 20:25


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2019-03-13T19:54:16+02:00 2019-03-13T19:54:16+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=17305&p=172718#p172718 <![CDATA[Re: Inquiry to the moderation team]]>
Spoiler: show
Here:Image

Statistics: Posted by Endranii — 13 Mar 2019, 19:54


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2019-03-13T19:15:04+02:00 2019-03-13T19:15:04+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=17305&p=172717#p172717 <![CDATA[Re: Inquiry to the moderation team]]> 'process' of banning/removing users from slack on how they talk to others really a place the admins/mods/whoever want to go to? (as long as no threats or serious derogatory comments are exchanged)

Seems far to subjective for any consistency or 'fair' rulings on this, which i believe is one of the main points/concerns from the OP?

Statistics: Posted by Mathew — 13 Mar 2019, 19:15


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2019-03-13T18:35:36+02:00 2019-03-13T18:35:36+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=17305&p=172716#p172716 <![CDATA[Re: Inquiry to the moderation team]]>
biass wrote:
Blodir wrote:Why do you think that is? Why are there several contributors in 'high' positions who don't like you and your friends?


Imagine you went to school in a nice place, and that school had a sandpit and a playset. Now you never really went to the sandpit because your newly made friends went to the playset every day, but over time they started to tell you that everyone who went into the sandpit, were bad. You didn't want to go against your friends, because you didn't want to spend your school time being bullied, but you never really understood WHY someone who went to the sandpit was bad.

One day, a new kid goes and plays in the sandpit. Do you try and take that individual person at face value and form your own opinion? Or do you assume they're bad because they played in the sandpit? Everyone likes to say they do the former, but in reality people do not.


Ok so I found this analogy more than a little confusing, so I'll just kind of ignore it.

I'm a little bored so I'll humor you and do a couple of searches from your chat messages in discord, then we will try to deduce why there are people who don't want you in slack. I know discord is obviously different, but regardless of how you conduct yourself in slack if you're a total asshole elsewhere, being an angel in slack still won't make other people want to associate with you.

I searched for discord messages from biass containing the word 'dev'.


Spoiler: show
axel1203/06/2019
We just want a second channel alike the one that exist. Because it turn out that as an example sometimes some devs play and others programm and then they would like to split up or they just work on something different. At least that happend lately more often. So we asked for a voice channel like Development #2 or whatever u wanna call it. Looking back it might have been a bad idea from geo to put this request in his sarcastic letter like request, but we did not think it was any problem at all or that ppl dont want us to have it.

To be honest be have a second discord now but I think it is bad because like new devs wont ever find us there.
@Wise Old Dog
biass03/06/2019
just put it in a slack topic
axel1203/06/2019
What?
biass03/06/2019
:4Head:
LouveRox03/06/2019
if you have nothing useful to say biass you might want to switch to another channel
or another server
or just you know, keep it for yourself
biass03/06/2019
i literally gave a totally valid suggestion dude what in the f***
if all the fucking devs are in slack, link the gaming discord there and then role gate devs as they enter
jesus christ
Wise Old Dog03/06/2019
^
biass03/06/2019
im literally getting perseucted for rational dialogue
in this shithole of a fucking community
Wise Old Dog03/06/2019
That was uncalled for really
Much like the other bickering and arguing that ensued here
biass03/06/2019
maybe we should make a fucking channel where you have to be older than 21 to enter it
literal
perfection
i am actually turning into morax dude
Heartler03/06/2019
ftx free channel :Kreygasm:
biass03/06/2019
maybe when he claims some dumbfuck is that way because he is a kid maybe he was right all along you know?
Heartler03/06/2019
oh wait we have that alraedy in the chamber :4Head:
biass03/06/2019
:5head:
Wise Old Dog03/06/2019
Regarding the extra channel bit, I suppose I can do with adding another dev vc
Honestly though I don't really understand everything that lead up to a simple matter of "hey can there be like 1 more dev voice channel"
And why it was a big deal that it should happen
biass03/06/2019
because it wasnt "hey can you make dev #1 and dev #2" it was "we NEED a pleb free GAMIN ROOM"
and then when denied people left the server in a fit of autism
pepega clap dude

I genuinely couldn't tell if you were trolling with the slack topic suggestion (nobody reads slack topics), but then you added a 4head when you were asked for a clarification. This makes it look very much like you are trolling (regardless of if you are or not). Still, LouveRox overreacts (big time). You totally explode after that.

1. You send a message that could be interpreted as trolling
2. Someone interprets your message as trolling and reprimands you for it
3. You call the community a shithole among other things


Spoiler: show
biass03/05/2019
Well I could never get a dev into aeolus so moot suggest
With all the PEASANTS
I0110911211612103/05/2019
What did I miss? Just devs being devs?
biass03/05/2019
The NON CONTRIBUTORS
Yeah
Gn it's 5am

You imply that devs are arrogant (without any provoking). People don't like being called arrogant.

There's another insanely long conversation here, and any quote would be out of context, but here's one anyway.
Spoiler: show
biass03/05/2019
maybe the devs should stay in slack
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
i suggest they interact with community like everyone else for years
three lines and i regret it
perhaps this week in slack was the ultimate answer

This one is implying that devs are antisocial and/or arrogant.


Spoiler: show
Kyryl (Etherr)02/06/2019
They may own the intelectual property, but I own their machine code, which they happily gave out XD
They own only c++ code. Code generated by the compiler is not owned by anyone. Unless they own the compiler, which they dont.
Partially because it is impossible to claim the code which nobody seen except me. XD
I suspect 70% of that software is opensource anyway. Some of which i know it definitely uses: Boost c++ libraries, Luaplus 5.1, Geonometric Tools library, WxWidgets library, Msvcp80 (proprietary from MS, but statically linked, so is not theirs), and probably many other stuff I did not find yet
Shadownamesto02/06/2019
Which version is updated further, 0.18.1 or 0.9.3 beta?
me and a friend are trying to get his side working and we aren't sure if he needs to download a different version or if I do.
Kyryl (Etherr)02/06/2019
So what they actually own is only a tip of the iceberg if you think about it in detail
biass02/06/2019
Is there something I missed or is the dev talking to himself

While asking for context is a fair query, the way you said it (implying that he's talking to himself which is generally seen as a negative trait) is very mean. This is again without anyone provoking you.


Spoiler: show
FtXCommando01/18/2019
Disrespect the devs and you disrespect me.
DostyaBOT01/18/2019
Fremy_Speeddraw: Ftx come back, your family misses you.
biass01/18/2019
Disrespect those disrespecting the devs and you disrespect me.

Implying that you approve of FtX's message in some capacity (since you are playing off it), while he is making fun of devs wanting respect.


Spoiler: show
biass01/11/2019
Start posting furry murder memes in slack to scare devs who use wolf avatars

Implying that some devs/slackers are furries (which comes with all kinds of negative connotations).


Spoiler: show
biass01/11/2019
I do enjoy devs needing to be explained by the normies how faf runs

Disrespectful comment about devs being out of touch with the game/community


I'm literally just going down the list. Just about every mention of 'dev' to comes with some negative comment. None of this stuff alone is all that bad (besides the furry thing, thats actually pretty bad), but put together I get the image that you never show any respect to the devs (or most other people from what I've observed). Eventually it adds up and people realise they don't need such a negative influence in their lives.

Statistics: Posted by Blodir — 13 Mar 2019, 18:35


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